What difference does altitude make?

Triathlon Forum
1

Contemplating two life decisions this week.

  1. Will run first Ironman in 2007. Which one?

  2. Possible relocation to rocky mountains.

Based on what I have learned here I have been leaning toward IM Florida. Nice flat bike, so I should be able to just relax, spin and be in decent shape for the run. Late in the year to allow more training time. Also days are shorter in November so if heat is a factor, it will cool off earlier when the sun goes down sooner.

Anyway, If I end up relocating, I will live at about 5,000 ft. and be able to train at even higher elevations. So that would also contribute to success at sea level like Fla. (I think) However, I would also be within driving distance to CDA. I would save a lot of money on travel. In fact I could make a few scouting trips out there over the next couple of years to run the courses and watch the 2006 race.

So my question is, how much of an effect does the altitude have anyway? Any of you train/live at altitude? Do you notice the difference when you travel to race at lower elevations? Also any of you that have moved to higher altitudes, how long did it take for your body to adapt? Surely, if I make this move, the training is going to suck bigtime until some changes take place in my body. I’m just wondering if that will take weeks, months or years. If it helps, I have only been in the midwest for two years. I lived in the mountains for 7 years before that and I am ready to go back.

2

First. There have been a few threads about chosing a flat bike course. Some feel this doesn’t give your legs a break. If you are training in the Rockies, shouldn’t you perhaps choose a hilly, or rolling IM course?

Second. I heard that the latest on altitude is sleep high, train low. So for you it would be good living at 5k and then going down to train, could you do this?

Check this out: http://www.altitudetraining.com/

Bobby

3

Altitude training makes a big dirrerence in your overall fitness and oxygen carrying capicity of your blood. I live at altitude, and for the past 25 years, I would often go on training trips to high places. All the old guard (Big four, Pigg, et. al.) would go and live where you are planning on going for 4 to 6 months of the year. The air is thin and clean, and the enviorment is just plain easy on your mind. Three hours in the forest seems like an hur in rush hour traffic. You will love it.

As for this train low and sleep high, ignore it. They are trying to sell you something, and handing you snake oil. Train high and sleep low. If you think about it, it makes the most logical sense. By training high, your body will make the changes to your blood chemistry quicker, and take it to whatever limit your body can produce. The majority of your recovery comes while you sleep, so it makes no sense to tax your system with a heavier load during this time. Sleep low to get the most out of your recovery, the 5000ft should just be about perfect for this. Just go up on your workouts, and come back down for the recovery. No doubt that you will get a lot of conflicting advice on this, but just be aware that many are selling products that promote the opposite of what I have just said. I’m not selling anything, just using common sense and 25 years of expirence with myself and dozens of other top athletes…Good luck, you will love it…

4

Altitude generally increases work output at any aerobic intensity by 2-3%, slightly less for low responders and up to 5% for high responders. Note that this improves sustainable wattage, not miles per hour by 2-3%. Running speed is roughly linear to work output, so speed improvements are likely to be 2-3% for average responders.

There will be an article in the November Inside Triathlon by a brilliant coach : ) about using altitude simulaton equipment.

Ken

5

It only takes two or three weeks to acclimate to a higher elevation, especially as low as 5000 feet. And yeah from my perspective altitude makes a huge difference. It is a real burden to slog my way through all that thick heavy air at lower elevations. Actually I’m not kidding… The hardest thing when I race at lower elevation is the humidity. I’m just used to the high dry air of Colorado and sweating efficiently.

6

First. There have been a few threads about chosing a flat bike course. Some feel this doesn’t give your legs a break. If you are training in the Rockies, shouldn’t you perhaps choose a hilly, or rolling IM course?

Second. I heard that the latest on altitude is sleep high, train low. So for you it would be good living at 5k and then going down to train, could you do this?

Check this out: http://www.altitudetraining.com/

Bobby

The town I’m looking at is on a high-desert plateu at about 5000 ft. It is surrounded by peaks in the 12-14,000 ft. range. So in this area, 5000 ft is the low spot.

I just thought that training on hills and at altitude would make a low, flat course that much easier. But if you just go faster, it won’t be any easier. So discipline would still be in order. After reading the other comments about humidity, I think CDA may be a good option. I hadn’t thought about that.

7

Living at altitude helps you race at altitude. I train at about 2200’ and race competitively in my age group at up to 7000. At 9000 or 10,000’, I start getting my ass kicked. I really notice the increased altitude in the swim. It can seem like forever between breaths. This can be a bit scary the first few times. My friends who live (and beat me) at altitude really have no advantage when they come down lower.

8

/My friends who live (and beat me) at altitude really have no advantage when they come down lower.

I beg to differ withyou here. You may not feel that they have an advantage, but they will have more red blood cells than they otherwise would have had at sea level. Maybe you would just be wiping the floor with them had they lived at sea level. If it didn’t mean anything to have more red blood cells, then why are so many athletes using drugs to get that same effect?? It does work, it just may be that the suttle difference in your friends is not noticable to you.

9

I’d agree with the other posters on choosing IM Florida as your first race. Nothing would be more boring than a 112 mile bike ride with no hills whatsoever. I don’t think I could force myself to maintain a continuous cadence/speed and stay in the aerobars that entire time. My legs and back need a break once in a while. However, to each their own.

Chris

10

I share Monty’s experience. At sub-threshold sea level efforts the performance improvement comes in terms of reduced fatigue, rather than increased power/pace. In other words, I run faster off the bike due to reduced fatigue – rather than – I run faster when fresh in training. I am guessing that more O2 is being delivered to my muscle cells (via increased red blood cells and other factors).

At FT and at vVO2/CP VO2 – my numbers improve in line with being able to achieve and sustain a higher HR. I haven’t seen an increase in power/pace for a given HR. In fact, due to more dense air, my pace at a given HR could decrease – I see this on the bike for example. 300w is a lot quicker at 6,000 ft than sea level.

Having experimented widely with natural and artificial altitude, the protocol that works best (for me) is consistent endurance training the 7500-9500 ft range and sleep at 5-6000 ft. I feel that desaturation, while training, is a key driver of beneficial changes due to altitude. Not all of these benefits appear as increased red blood cells.

Once acclimatized, I find the following works for maintenance… 2x80 min easy runs at avg height of 8500ft; 1x3 hour ride with 60-75 min steady/mod-hard main set climbing from 6000-9500ft // that ride is my key ‘desaturation’ workout for the week. When acclimatizing, I’ll do up to 50% of total volume above 6,000 feet (but I don’t think that much is required). I find that 5,000 feet is enough for me to desaturate when swimming.

What I haven’t found is a Southern Hemisphere base where I can train as well as, say, Boulder. So my use of altitude is typically 2-4 mths prior to my A race, most years that has been IMC. I have always had my best runs, relative to fitness, following altitude training.

Based on my tri and mountaineering experience, I am a high responder to altitude. Some folks just get tired, rather than faster. A speedy Swede that I work/train with could be an example of an (8:21 IM) athlete that doesn’t appear to get a lot of benefit from altitude training. So you need to see what works for you.

All this is anecdotal but ties into the science that I’ve read. However, there remains much to be understood about the science of altitude.

g

11

I used to live at 6000ft, but go to university at sea level. So, 2-4 times a year, I’d get to check the effect…

Typically I’d be about 1 min faster on an 8k run timetrial at sea level, after living/training at 6000ft for a month. After another month to six weeks at sea level, I’d lose the minute again.