I’m seriously considering one of the top of the line wetsuits. Currently I’m in a 2006 Blue70 Reaction. I bought it because it was reasonably priced and after trying on a couple of brands/models in the same price range it fit the best.
After a year plus of using it I’m starting to think I need a more flexible suit and was wondering if the top $$$ suits that promote all the bells and whistles will make that much of a difference. My problem with the reaction is that even though it fits me right and I take my time putting it on and making sure it’s on right when I swim it feels like my shoulders are fighting the suit and within a few hundred yards my shoulders are screaming and I have to back off.
I was in a half last weekend (saturday) and my shoulders are still sore/tired today. Do the new upper end suits from the various mfgs really make that much of a difference and have better range of motion/flexibility in the shoulders?
I have a Nineteen Frequency and have never had a bit of shoulder fatigue with it. But I also take a full 10 minutes to make sure that I get it on properly and that it is hiked up high so my shoulders have plenty of room. It also fits like a glove.
As I was going for a practice swim and was donning my wetsuit last week, a guy had the balls to say to me: Man, that wetsuit sure is TIGHT! Talk about something you don’t say to a woman! I hope I beat him by 10 minutes…
Not sure if this helps - but - I have had an old longjohn for the past 15 odd years, and recently upgraded to a blue seventy helix this past (sth hemisphere) summer. All summer I was getting significant shoulder fatigue (despite the fact I am a reasonable (57min IM) swimmer. Then the day before IMOZ I met the blue seventy rep at the swim course and he “fitted me” into my suit. Man what a difference!! He pulled the arms up so high the sleeves ended half way down my forearems - but my shoulders felt so free and easy - and I had a lot less water coming up my arms in the swim. Unfortunately I couldn’t find him come race morning and struggled to get the same fit myself. What does this say - well if you can get someone to pull your suit tighter and higher, your arm fatigue may be a lot less, and you could save yourself some $$ - cos I don’t think you will notice a huge difference from a 2 year old suit that is already pretty flexible - unless you are trying to get a couple of extra seconds out of it.
Thanks for the tip. I might try that. I know I am usually pretty methodical about putting my suit on right and try to pull everything up and make sure there is no gap under my armpits, but I"ve never tried pulling the arms up like you describe. I may try that.
I can attest to Jodi taking at least 10 minutes to put on her wetsuit, but she’s a doc, so she’e through
Anyhow, I tried a bunch of full sleeve wetsuits over the last year and finally decided that the Desoto First Wave was the once for me. After using it in the Kinetic 1/2 last weekend I was very happy. Of course I need to send the bottom back to Desoto due to a defect, but that’s a minor thing.
In short, as someone who is not a swimmer (As my times indicate) the Desoto fit exceptionally well and performed flawlessly for me.
I was using a Ironman Instinct fullsuit (the same company as blueseventy before they re-branded). It was an ‘entry-level’ suit. I had some good results with it…but was curious about the benefits of a top of the line suit.
Bottom line, I was able to get my hands on a blueseventy helix and I love it. I wouldn’t ever go back to the Instinct. The big difference was the shoulder flexibility…the obvious benefit was shoulder fatigue was significantly reduced. The cost difference is pretty steep, but there is noticeable difference.
Then the day before IMOZ I met the blue seventy rep at the swim course and he “fitted me” into my suit. Man what a difference!! He pulled the arms up so high the sleeves ended half way down my forearems - but my shoulders felt so free and easy
Absolutly key. The sleeves of the suit should be worked up the arm until you can grab a small handful of neoprene in a fist in the area between the shoulder and the neck. Do not worry about how far the sleeve comes up your arm. Having max shoulder flexibility is key.
I have done the same at many races - helped people properly fit their wetsuits - with all brands, Nineteen and otherwise, and what I like to see is the smiles on people faces when they come back to me after their training swim or their race and say " Wow! My wetsuit feels really great now!"
**The cost difference is pretty steep, but there is noticeable difference. **
Indeed, there is a jump up when going from an entry level suit to a top end suit - but it’s only about $250 - $300 jump, and you get the best wetsuit you can get( assuming it fits properly). Consider a similar jump up in bikes - you are going from $2,500 to over $5,000+ !
Over the previous two years we put a lot of work into trying to determine which wetsuit was “best” or fastest and what kinds of differences we would find between suits. We did a number of time trials in the pool and a few in open water. We also used many different suits across a broad (basically the entire) range of prices from entry price Neosport full suits at around $200 retail (an exceptional value) and suits crowding $600 and $700.
We found almost no difference in performance.
At first we thought our test protocols were wrong so we made some calls and re-evaluated our testing. Still no significant differences in performance.
Thinking about this, there is an odd lack of so-called “test” data in the wetsuit marketing arena. We see weight and aerodynamic comparisons and “testig” ad nauseum in bicycle comparisons, but I can’t recall a single wetsuit ad that features a chart showing the 1500 meter time savings of one suit over another in an independent test. I also have neve seen testing for bouyancy and hydrodynamics. An engineer from U of M did fabricate a submersible test to measure bouyancy of suits for us but we didn’t do the test since we didn’t understand the role of bouyancy in wetsuit performance. We initially assumed bouyancy meant speed. It isn’t necessarily the case. He also fabricated a fascinating and simple test for wetsuit flexibility using a manniquin and some measuring devices. We assumed flexibility may mean better speed. As it turns out something we’ve discovered is that the most flexible suits may be slower than stiffer suits.
One thing we have seemed to find is that suits that use a non-absorbent lining of some sort as opposed to nylon for the inner lining seem to stay more “swimmable” or possibly (this is no more than a scientific wild-assed guess) faster during a long swim than suits that absorb water and may actually (again, hypothesizing here) slow down on the back half of a long swim. Also, we have a sense that slightly stiffer suits are faster. They may be harder to swim in, but they may actually net faster swim splits.
Anyway- all congecture at this point.
Bottom line: I say buy the least expensive full suit that fits you well, put it on correctly and spend more time in the pool.
I would suggest trying other brands with different cuts. When I bought my first suit, I tried on, what was then the Ironman __________ (their top-of-the-line). It was horrific as to how if fit my body. Other brands felt like thery were custom made for me. Maybe that has something to do with it for you as well.
I hope not to stray too far off topic with this. I would really like to see more testing and evaluation regarding wetsuits and clothing. Aerodynamics on the bike gets beat to death for every second. Since water is so much denser, isn’t hydrodynamics (if that is the right word) be possibly even more significant? Didn’t you do some testing of trisuits as to the amount of water retained and such? I think you may be a pioneer in this regard.
There is a pro triathlete on ST who has found significant differences among a number of wetsuits in his pool tests. He found that his sponsor’s wetsuit was not nearly as good as the one he uses (and which I now use).
We sell hundreds of wetsuits each year, but very few of them are the top of the line suits. The vast majority of our customers buy the entry level suits and are fairly happy with the results. I’m not convinced there’s any performance difference when you go to a pricier suit. The one exception to that rule seems to be the Zoot Zenith, where I think you get a much better fit because of the construction of the suit, and more flexibility because you are pulling against thinner neoprene. Those two benefits should translate to better performance in the water.
That said, if shoulder fatigue is your primary issue, consider a sleeveless suit. You lose some bouyancy, so you have to be a slightly better swimmer, but your shoulders will have a lot more freedom to move.
I recall talking with you a while back about this testing that you did. I am glad that you brought it up again. I don’t want to turn this into a Frank Day vs. the World argument, but I did want to address a few of your points
Testing: Everyone can claim to have the fastest/best wetsuit but it’s a really hard thing to test. A wetsuit is not like a bike/frame in the wind tunnel. You can put the bike in the wind tunnel on it’s own, and get some numbers from that. You can even stick riders on the bike in fairly consistant and fixed positions and get some numbers on that too. However, you can’t do that with a wetsuit. How do you test the wetsuit on it’s own? Every persons body fills the suit out a bit differently and every persons swim stroke is just that little bit different to yield different results.
Bouyancy: The performance of a wetsuit is not exclusivly about bouyancy, it’s also about body position in the water but bouyancy is a big part of why a wetsuit is faster. Great swimmers have great position in the water for the whole swim - that’s why a wetsuit helps these folks the least. The bouyancy of the suit using up to the max 5mm thickness in the right places, helps a swimmer maintain the high hips and feet postion during the swim. The bouyancy of the suit makes the swimmer displace less water - which also contributes to speed. By having the hips high they allow maximum power to be used in the front end of the swim stroke through better leverage and the hips/legs/feet are also able to draft behind the shoulders and not create drag. So, why not make a wetsuit out of all 5mm then? A) You need to have flexibility somewhere. That’s why we use thinner neoprene on the sleeves/shoulders. B) Also if you use too much 5mm in the upper body you will start to float the upper body too high and negate the natural body roll from side to side, that is important for efficient swim stroke technique. That’s why on the Nineteen Frequency model we actually use less 5mm neoprene on the upper body of the suit, in particular the sides of the body( we use 1.5mm there)so that the upper body does not float up too much and more importantly the natural body roll can be maintained while swimming. The lungs give you great float in the upper body and having less neoprene on the side of the body allows for that natural roll onto the side during the swim stroke. I note the bottom half of the Frequency is almost all 5mm neoprene - that’s where you want the bouyancy to, as I said, keep the hips/legs/feet high for the whole swim.
With respect I don’t know how you came to the conclusion that more flexible suits are slower and stiffer suits possibley faster. If a swimmer is allowed to move through the full range of their swim stroke, unimpeded, while wearing a wetsuit and also maintain great body postion in the water( which as I pointed out the wetsuit should be doing), then they should be able to swim faster.
The high-end super flexible wetsuits could possibly be slower if the person is not wearing the right size ( Too big) and the suit is leaking water and filling with water - this will lead to less than optimal times. Many people don’t wear their wetsuits tight enough and this is particularly true with the high end suits. Some need to drop down a full size when wearing our Frequency model. The high-end suits are best worn with what we call The Performance Fit - which is tighter than I think many realize.
Indeed in the end it’s about spending more time in the pool working on your swim stroke and getting fit. However, a great fitting wetsuit that is flexible in the right place and as bouyant as it can be in other key places, will allow for optimal swim times for just about everyone.
As I was going for a practice swim and was donning my wetsuit last week, a guy had the balls to say to me: Man, that wetsuit sure is TIGHT! Talk about something you don’t say to a woman! I hope I beat him by 10 minutes…
