Western States - North Face Trail Shoes?

[dksf]

Hello-

So I was given a pair of North Face Gore-Tex 103 XCR trail running shoes for Christmas. It happens that I’ll be pacing a runner in Western States 100 this coming year. Most of the trail running I’ve done has been in old running shoes. Wondering if anyone has experience with the 103 XCR. Is this appropriate for pacing the WS100? Should I be looking to exchange for a lighter shoe like the Radial?

I’m a bit concerned as this appears to be a shoe built for serious snow/slush/wet and I’m not sure how much of that I’ll see in June, besides maybe the river crossings.

Appreciate any advice to a rather newbie trail guy.

DKSF

[Tom_Demerly]

I’m sorry to be a pooh-pooh on this, but I have had experience with The North Face footwear and it hasn’t been all that thrilling.

I own a closet full of their clothing- too much to admit to. The shoes… not so good.

If you want an authentic pair of trail runners for ultras in awful terrain think about trying on some Montrails. They are ugly as all get out (The North Face shoe I bought because I liked the way they looked…) but work awesome.

I did the Jordan Telecom Desert Cup race along the Jordanian/Iraqi border- a 105 mile race. The Montrails were very, very good.

If you don’t get the right shoes in an ultra your feet could wind up like mine in these photos, as seen in the 1999 Marathon Des Sables:

[mdd]

Those shoes might be a little “heavy” for what you are describing. I would keep them for the more hardcore terrain but find something else for the WS. You will need comfort for WS since it is all about just going and going and going…

Plus keep in mind that it is not a race that you are actually running the whole time. There is ALOT of walking and slow shuffling that goes on which I think people forget about sometimes.

Good luck!

[Oleander]

I have the 102’s, both the Gore-tex and the non Gore-tex versions.

Coupla observations.

I tend to blister in Gore-tex shoes. I do sometimes blister in the GTX 102’s. However, I blistered much worse in the 2 other XCR brands I tried. One was Montrail, the other I don’t recall - they got returned to the store. Anyhow, now I use the XCR 102’s just for short runs in heavy rain/mud, or hikes in same, because if it’s short, I don’t blister.

The non Gore-tex North Face 102’s, I use for long distance backpacking.

It will be hot at Western States. Get something that is non Gore-tex and that breathes really well.

[AgedGrouper]

If you are not absolutely convinced that you can or want to run in them then don’t. No sense wasting the gift-givers money and thoughtfulness on a pair of shoes in your closet.

Like Tom, I’ve got a closet full of items I “thought” would be great performers and they weren’t.

Recently I’ve bought Saucony and two pairs of Pearl Izumi trail shoes and like them all. By coincidence I ran three times this Fall with Dean Karnazes who helped to develop the North Face XCR BOA. He told me that he asked them to throw i in the best of several shoes he’s liked. Mizuno was the one brand I remember him saying along with some of the other North Face shoes they make, maybe Nike too.

I tried the BOA on and it felt light and looked durable, it will be my next trail shoe. Dean said that he was very pleased with how the shoe came out and that it was durable and comfortable for him.

It really comes down to what you like/want in a shoe…all of our expectations are different. Have a great time at the ER100, I am jealous!

[rroof]

See my review I posted yesterday of the Inov-8 FlyRoc310 shoes, then check out

www.inov-8.com You will most certainly find something there you like. Highly rated by more than just me. Those North Face shoes are basically low hiking boots - no good.

Best trail shoes I have found by a long shot. In fact, I’ve never given an entire shoe LINE a thumbs up like this (I try, see, review lots of shoes in my world/job)

[AgedGrouper]

I just looked at the website, very cool. I will pick up a pair and try them myself. Thanks!

[Peleton]

I am a backcountry gear junky and have found the quality of North Face products to be all over the place. I have some older North Face packs and tents that are top of the line, IMO. But I think the company’s quality has drastically slipped during the last 5 or so years as they seem to be marketing more now to the mainstream. You can buy cheap North Face clothing just about anywhere now days. I’m not saying their shoes aren’t good quality, just that, in general, I avoid the brand. There are just too many other good trail shoes out there today – Inov-8, La Sportiva, Salomon, Saucomy, Asics, Montrail, etc. You can’t go wrong with any of these brands.

Again, I know nothing about North Face shoes. I just never consider their products because of the lame craftsmanship I’ve seen in some of their recent products AND because there are so many other great brands to choose from.

Backcountry.com is a great place to obtain independent product reviews and they have a fairly large selection of trail runners. http://search.backcountry.com/exec/?mv_session_id=44czEvuJ&q=trail+running+shoes

[pdxjohn]

I’ve done the race 4 times (3 3/4 to be fair), and paced two times. I will be pacing again in '07.

IMO the North Face Gore Tex is overkill in terms of weight and water resistance. I have not worn them personally, but tried 'em on in the store. Frankly, I thought they were a bit clunky.

You DO want protection, but a shoe that you also can wear blister free for several hours. WS is VERY rocky, crash plates under the forefoot are nice. Check out the Montrail Continental Divide, the Vasque shoes, or the INOV Terroc as mentioned earlier. Don’t worry about getting your feet wet. If they boat across the American River as they have the past two years, you won’t get your feet wet at all. If you do have to wade next year, the soaked shoes are usually dry by the time you do the long march from the river to the Green Gate (about 2 mi.). Some folks leave a spare pair at the far side of the river crossing, which you could do in your runners’ drop bag. I’m not going to.

Bigger issue is Poison Oak! Beware it’s all over the place. And, at night when you (and I) will be pacing you brush through it without even knowing. Use Tecnu before AND especially after even if you are not sensitive to it. Then throw away the shoes and socks you paced in! Heh, Heh, kidding (kind of).

[Sub-10]

Good Morning DKSF,

While I have no experience with that particular North Face model, I did spend several hundred miles training miles in a North Face shoe designed for 100 miler’s. I was disappointed in the quality and ended-up taking the shoe into the SF North Face store to discuss the matter. To their credit, they agreed with me and refunded my money. I continue to buy North Face products without reservation and think well of the company as a whole.

Shoe selection is critical and what I found was that the characteristics I needed in a trail running shoe were very different than in my regular training road shoes. At WS the devil for me was the 20,000’ feet of elevation drop! I ended up running hilly Ultra’s (including WS100) in Montrails and continue to be a “Vitesse” fan, which makes me a bit of a Ludite. I used two pair: one for the start and one on the other side of the river crossing.

*** One thing that you should consider is the use of gaiters to keep out small rocks, grit, and thorns and to minimize the accumulation of dirt. Joe Dana makes some that are wonderful and do not have a bothersome strap that wraps around the shoe www.joetrailman.com

Your note gave me pause to reflect a bit and laugh at myself. My journey into Ultra running began with a call from a buddy asking me to pace him at WS - I had no real idea as to what it was. I was at peak fitness, and a bit full of myself, for the old (Full) IM CA, bulletproof and casually committed a “sure … sounds like fun” without a care or inquiry as to any of the details other than the date June 23-24. Long story short I raced very hard at IMCA that May, blacking out in the final miles of the run, posting an AG 2 to Don Fink’s 1 and was absolutely physically crushed. I was a complete WRECK! after two weeks of recovery I could barely “trot” 10K, flat, without crashing out.

I began to worry about my pacing job! Under the guise of a very causual “hey, how are you? Are you getting excited …” call I rang my buddy to investigate just “what” this “pacing” job was all about without letting on that I was such a wreck. I almost fell out of my chair when he mentioned that I would run with him from Foresthill to Augurn - 38 miles!!

I ended up have in blast although I was completely ignorant (stupid would also work) in any, and all, things “Ultra” - I ended up doing a great job for him and following the finish I thought: “I gotta get some of this!” I took two years off my Ironman focus to do it.

. . . Oh, the shoes I paced in: Asics DS Trainers

Truth.

The lower portion of WS is not so bad as the first 62. Plan on hot, dusty and epic good fun.

[El_Scorcho]

Wow DS trainers on that section. You are a madman! those shoes dont have any forefoot protection at all.

[just_jack]

I had a pair, and found they had an odd fit. i wore them for a few runs, and took them back to rei (who refunded full price). tnf makes great stuff, if you stick to their core products (i just got a new down coat for christmas that rocks … extremely well thought out). but, tnf shoes arent quite there yet. after the tnf i got a pait of montrails that i like. lately ive been running trails a lot in my regular asics road shoes (landreth, nimbus, and cumulus); ive had no problems at all. im beginning to think trail runners are superfluous on all but the most extreme trails.

[rroof]

You are most correct. Most people don’t really need “trail” shoes (or stability shoes in general for that matter). However, traction is an issue in mud/wet grass/hills etc. with some shoes. Plus, if you run every day (or even 2xday), I can’t wait for shoes to dry out, and often need a pair(s) to rotate through. That is why I like the Inov-8 concept of a minimal upper, aggressive, but low profile outsole and light weight. All one needs in a trail shoe. They further separate them from hard pack racing (minimal shoe), to mud shoes with serious blocks, to waterproof if needed. Done. A touch pricey, but still less than most of the North Face “hiking” shoe runners I’ve seen.