I was wondering how many miles a week you need to run to improve running a marathon. I’m running 50 miles a week (including a long runs of 22 miles and some speedwork) and I just run a marathon in 3:25.
Do you guys feel that running more makes you run faster? How many miles do you guys run per week and what are your results?
How long have you been at 50 miles/week? That’s a pretty good volume, if you are also cycling. A year or two steady at that should give you some real improvement…its about consistency. Now if are really looking to improve your marathon…you’ll need to minimize cycling and work up to 70+ weeks consistently…
That’s just a rough stab, since I have no background on you and how you got to 3:25.
For reference, I run 3:00 +/- about 10minutes consistenly on 40-50 miles per week, backed up by 100-200 miles of cycling/week throughout the year. I’ve run 2:54 as PB, with the above mileage and a 6-week block of 60-80 mile weeks.
My last marathon I ran a 3:20. My previous PR was a 3:41. I wasn’t specifically training for the marathon but threw it in for training purposes. My training schedule at that time consisted of 3 days of the week with two runs per day. Consisting of no less than :45 and no more than 1:15. On the fourth day I’d run once at 1:15. My long runs would be on the weekend and were never longer than 12 miles. It was prob the overall fitness that improved my run but I contribute it to the volume. If I’d been specifically training for the marry I would have upped my long runs to better suit the training and think my time would have improved by another :10-:15. The long runs help but I definitely don’t think that is what helps you get through the last six strong. It’s the extra volume in your workouts.
I averaged about 33 miles per week during my 9-week marathon ramp-up last fall, I ran 3:19. I’m planning to avg. 45-50 next time around.
Dave in VA
I don’t think you can necessarily say you have to run a certain mpw to have solid improvements in the marathon. For some, bumping up your mileage to 70mpw will only result in injury. You can do a lot with 40-50mpw if you are cycling and swimming a lot. I ran 2:37 on 30mpw last October. I don’t really recommend that though, as it took about 1 month to recover. The most important thing is to increase mileage slowly and listen to your body. It sounds like you are doing a lot of the right things.
Your ceiling will be dictated by natural ability…genetics if you will. You can’t run faster than the engine and chassis are built to go.
That said the only way you find that ceiling is by pushing yourself constantly out of your comfort zone. 50 miles a week is a good foundation. If you can handle that sort of mileage and remain healthy then there’s no reason why you shouldn’t push that comfort zone a bit.
The marathon is a strength event not a speed event and the fastest way to get stronger is to run more miles. Most people who suffer late in marathons do so not because they have reached their lactate threshold, or they don’t have sufficient speed, they crash because they lack strength…i.e. miles in their legs.
For your next marathon build up to 70-80 miles a week and try to hold that workload for at least a month before your taper. If you find that your legs just can’t handle the stress, cut out the speedwork but try to maintain the mileage. In marathon training mileage is always more important than speed.
Depending on how close you are to your natural ceiling, you should be able to knock a considerable chunk of time off your PR.
For my first marathon I topped out at about 40-45 miles a week and ran 3:38. Next time out I think I cracked 50 a couple of times and ran 3:27.
By my 4th marathon I was running 70-80 miles a week and went sub 3, and at my best I was running 80-90 miles a week with a few in the low 100s and ran 2:37. If I’d had the time to crank out more 100 mile weeks I think I could have gone 10 minutes faster.
The only way you’ll find out what your boundaries are is by pushing them. Sometimes you might push a little too hard and pick up an injury…so what…its one of the hazards of the sport and if you want to find out how good you really can be you have to roll the dice sometimes. An athlete who has never been injured is an athlete who doesn’t try hard enough.
How fast are you going? How many of your workouts are slow, easy; and how many are tempo, interval, fartlek, etc?
Nine years ago, I was doing short distance track events (1500) and was only running 20- 30 mpw, with no runs longer than 8 miles. At the end of the season I decided to hop into a marathon for fun and went 3:16.
I probably could have gone under 3 with some distance specific training but I took my time, walked through the last couple of aid stations, danced, gave a bunch of kids high fives, and tried to unsuccesfully flirt with some ladies cheering me on. (Though coincidentally one did later become my wife).
One caveat though, I had a monster late fall and winter base with weekly milage at 70+
Mileage is crucial for long races … The more the better, but key workouts are the priority, so make sure those 2 or 3 runs a week are done when you are ready and rested.
For the marathon, I’d say the most important (in order) are: 1. the long run; followed by 2. the medium long run at marathon pace; and 3. tempo, track and speed at faster paces. Everything else should be easy.
My PR was 2.5 years ago: I ran 8 40+ mile weeks, 3 50+ and one 60-mile week for a 3:04. I was on pace but my legs gave out in the last 10K.
More miles in my legs will be needed to improve. I plan to do 10 40+ mile weeks, 5 50+ mile weeks and 3 60+ mile weeks. A 75-mile week would be a huge accomplishment but one I think I can pull off.
How fast are you going? How many of your workouts are slow, easy; and how many are tempo, interval, fartlek, etc?
I had two key runs a week that I focused on. My Sunday long run and a midweek 12-14 miler at marathon pace. I rarely ran outside my comfort zone except during these runs. Everything else was 7-7:30 minute miles running at a pace where I could hold a converstaion with my training partners.
I my long runs I run the first 6-10 miles very easy and the last 4 miles at marathon pace or faster.
My midweek MP runs would start several months out from race day and would be no more than 8-10 miles and I would build up to 14 miles…which should be a very hard effort if you’re in the middle of 80, 90 or 100 mile weeks.
You should also race often. Cross country is great marathon training…great for building leg strength. Events like Hood to Coast or the California Relay are also great strength builders.
Remember however that you should train through races and avoid the tempation to taper for every 10K you enter. Your focus should be the marathon and racing on tired legs during your buildup is something you’ll have to get used to.
In the run up to my last good marathon I kept getting beat by this same guy from a rival club. He was constantly running away from me in the final mile of races and in my last big tune up, a half marathon he blew me away in the final 2 miles beating me by over a minute. I was convinced this guy was just better than me.
On marathon day, sure as night follows day I come up on his shoulder at about mile 16 and we exchange pleasantries. We ran stride for stride until mile 24 when I dropped a big surge and ran away from him beating him that day by over a mnute. He was resting before his tune up races when I was not. It showed on race day.
Easy things to get faster in a marathon (works provided you’re not around 2h40 already)
strides, say 4 to 8 times 30’’ strides, full recovery, focusing in perfect form, cadence, light on your feet, around your mile pace or so (not sprint)
double runs, particularly on days with a track workout. Say, easy 40min run am with 6x30’’ strides towards the end, and evening a track workout or tempo workout
Francois,
How is this for a basic week,
Mon - 3-4miles with strides
Tue - 5-8miles hill repeats
Wed - 3-5miles easy
Thurs - long run
Fri - OFF
Sat - 4-7miles easy
Sun - A.M. 5-8miles with strides, P.M. 3-5miles with 30-60min tempo
That is my tenative sched,…
If you read Dr. Francois Perronet (The MArathon, ed. Decarie), he suggests 5mi (8km) run as your shortest runs.
Many running coaches suggest about the same for your shortest runs, unless the pace is much slower.
Thanks fo the tip…
t~
I was just reading about this in “The Lore Of Running” by Tim Noakes. He devotes 2 pages to this question and cites study after study, particularly a British study, which indicated that there is no direct relationship between marathon performance and weekly milage. The study was done to prove or disprove a theory by some other physiologists in the early part of the century who contended that a runner who did not run 40? miles a week would walk at mile 20, or fail.
The last study on this showed that the average weekly average milage for standard runners was 32-35 miles a week, but some below that did better than the average and some above average on milage did worse.
I had two key runs a week that I focused on. My Sunday long run and a midweek 12-14 miler at marathon pace. I rarely ran outside my comfort zone except during these runs. Everything else was 7-7:30 minute miles running at a pace where I could hold a converstaion with my training partners.
Since there was a huge discussion a few months ago about only running with sub-2hr runs for long runs, there seems to be a lot of experience in this thread with fast marathoning…what kind of long run at what pace for a ~50-70 mile week? My schedule was looking something like M:5k, T:10m, W:10k, Th:7m, Fr:5k, Sat: 15m, Sun:5k. This is 42 miles in a week alternating long/short days. I’ve now done a few 48-55 mile weeks, but not in a row. At this point I’m not comfortable going over the 50ish range because I don’t want to hurt myself, but last Saturday’s 20 miler at 2:55 (8:45 total including bathroom stops/water/etc) was remarkably easy. My run pace part was around 8:05. Anyway, if you are running a long run at 7-7:30 a 20 miler is 2:20-2:30…is this a typical “Sunday long run?” Am I better spreading my Saturday long run (15-20 miles) plus my Sunday 5k into a Saturday 15 and Sunday 7-10?
We’ve changed around to do that. My problem with the race pace or faster 8-10 mile run, or even a 6 mile tempo run, for me at least, is that it affects my Saturday long run, if its done later than Monday or Tuesday, and it reduces total weekly milage, and I’m not sure for what.
I have to just take a day off the next day. After that day off, then Run 8-10 easy on Thursday, no running on Friday, because I know I’ve got Saturday, very long. My days off are therefore related to and affected by those cruise intervals or race pace middle distance runs. This is the falsehood about week milage, in my opinion. Its easy to increase weekly milage without fast work to get “50” miles a week. Hard if you add what you are talking about. If I didn’t do the hard runs like that, I could do something like 8-10-5-9-5-16 miles during the week: over fifty miles, no sweat, going easy, though.
If however I add some ball busters on Tuesday, a 6-8 mile tempo run, Wednesday: nothing (maybe 3 miles), Thursday, five miles. It affects your weekly amount. I struggle to make “40” miles a week.
Easy things to get faster in a marathon (works provided you’re not around 2h40 already)
strides, say 4 to 8 times 30’’ strides, full recovery, focusing in perfect form, cadence, light on your feet, around your mile pace or so (not sprint)
double runs, particularly on days with a track workout. Say, easy 40min run am with 6x30’’ strides towards the end, and evening a track workout or tempo workout
The French dude’s tip is a good one…especially if like myself you avoid speedwork like the plague. I like to do strides on a track infield, stride out the length of the field, jog very slowly along the inside of track turn and do next stride along the other side.
If its windy you should always stride with the wind at your back.
If you are reasonably sure that the field is free of glass, sharp objects and dog poop, try doing strides barefoot.
When you are running a lot of miles, I have found two things that become more important…especially if you want to do it week in and week out. As posted, if you are trying to do high mileage for a marathon, bike a lot, and swim a lot, it is likely not going to work. I have been doing the run focus with much less biking, but to get ready for in-season fast 10ks…no marathon for me.
First, recovery becomes almost as important as the running. My recovery focus has been mostly focused on nutrition immediately after the run. We’ve all read about it, but to me makes a huge difference to practice it. Also, make sure that you have close to 24 hours between your Tuesday (ball buster) and Wednesday (tempo) workouts. I do a similar schedule with Tuesday being striders/turnover workouts and Wednesday being high end aerobic hill type workouts. THursday and Friday are dedicated easy run days. I also have a tough Saturday with MP/1/2 marathon pace work. So, recovery after hard runs has been rule #1 for me.
Secondly, if you are going to run a lot…run a lot. Take as few days off as possible. Learn to use running as recovery. You will get used to it. My toughest stretch was with 4 70+ mile weeks in a row. I don’t think that I took a single day off during those 4 weeks. But, after that, running 70 miles in 6 days was not that much of a challenge even when adding in some high end aerobic work. If you are running anaerobically, then you may be doing too much intensity and it will be difficult to do all of your planned workouts…especially with biking and swimming.
Unless you focus on the running and are willing to ‘neglect’ the cycling and swimming to some extent, you are probably going to find that it is all too much. If running a marathon, also be careful with traditional 400s, 800s, etc. as they might take too much out of you as most folks generally run those too fast too early. Save that for the 4-8 weeks leading up to your peak A 10k or Olympic triathlon. On a steady diet of mileage, 1x a week turnover (fast 100s - 400s with long recovery), hard hilly runs, and a long run I set a 1/2 marathon PR and ran the first 10k in a time that took a lot of ‘speedwork’ last year. So, once the anaerobic/interval training starts, that 10k should feel like a piece of cake.
So for those of you that are running 50+ a week how often do you replace your running shoes?
I know a lot of people (myself included go off the 300 to 400 mile rule), I was just wondering what the experiences of those with wicked high weekly mileage are? every 8 to 10 weeks?