Watts to go 40K in 1h?

Triathlon Forum
63

Yeah, you definitely don’t need 300 watts to go 40k in an hour. Most of the amateur 4-5 race fields complete 40k TT’s in 56 to 58 mins and most do not have FTPs that high. Body positioning is key, but if you have that covered, you can get away with an FTP in the 280’s and still be under an hour.

In what world are ‘most of the amateur 4-5s’ doing 56-58 minute 40Ks?

Get out of here with that.

I won our state 40K TT in Cat3 with a 56:00. Only 2 of the 22 Cat 4s were under 58:00 (57:38 and 57:51) and there was exactly 0 Cat 5s under 1:00:00.

Back to the OP. I’m 6’ and race at about 160. On the flat TT course this year, I went 56:00 on 292W. Last year was 273W for a 58:12.

In our cat 4’s, of the 16 riders, 10 were under 59:00. Even in the old guys, 50+ cat 4 you would need to be under 54 to win.

That’s impressive. What state?

Sounds like California/Nevada. Mabra-land (Maryland, Delaware, NoVa) is competitive, but you get 5-6 out of 16 cat-4 who finish under an hour. FWIW, i’m a frigging brick and am just pissing away power. Really gnaws at me as i’m supposed to be good at diesel efforts.

In our cat 4’s, of the 16 riders, 10 were under 59:00. Even in the old guys, 50+ cat 4 you would need to be under 54 to win.

Yes, we triathletes suck, a lowly cat 4 is stronger than 95% of us. Very good that you put this out there to keep some perspective.

well, ask cyclists (such as myself) to start running and swimming, and you’d find that we’d be a lot slower on our bikes

64

I am an old, fat and slow, marginal cat4 roadie. 6ft and 178 lbs on race day. In June of 2014 at 58, I went 57:33 on 281w at Church Creek, MD. It’s flat, but can be hot and windy. Not hot that day, but a little windy. Shiv, Reynolds RZR92s, Vittoria EVO CX tubies, older LG helmet, Castelli 3.0 skin suit, gloves and shoe covers. A lifetime PR for me.

Oh, and it was good for 7th out of 21 in the 55-64 age group…

In what state is 6’ 178lbs fat :slight_smile:

65

I’ve gone 57:22 on 268w on a flat out and back course that has some wind, but I think it was a beneficial wind as it was mostly a cross and may have got benefited with my disc cover compared to no wind at all.

I’ve also done 57:47 on 281w the next year with slightly windier conditions (everyone was slower, but I was closer to the OA win this year even though I was slower).

I’m 5’6", about 160, and while I use good tires, latex, aero helmet, skin suit, and 404/disc cover…I think my position is pretty shitty. Granted though, the year I went 57:22…I beat out a buddy of mine who was using a road bike, bibs/jersey and a Giro AA helmet. He did have 55 mm wheels and decent tires, but no latex. I think he went 57:35…but his FTP is something like 340. He’s about 6’ and 200 pounds. I wish I was exaggerating his FTP, but even though he’s 40 pounds heavier than me, he drops me like a bad habit on climbs…even the really steep stuff.

This doesn’t make sense. Your w/kg is 3.87 (using your 281w) his 3.75. Unless its a short climb and you’re super slow twitch and hes the opposite, something doesn’t add up!

66

I’ve gone 57:22 on 268w on a flat out and back course that has some wind, but I think it was a beneficial wind as it was mostly a cross and may have got benefited with my disc cover compared to no wind at all.

I’ve also done 57:47 on 281w the next year with slightly windier conditions (everyone was slower, but I was closer to the OA win this year even though I was slower).

I’m 5’6", about 160, and while I use good tires, latex, aero helmet, skin suit, and 404/disc cover…I think my position is pretty shitty. Granted though, the year I went 57:22…I beat out a buddy of mine who was using a road bike, bibs/jersey and a Giro AA helmet. He did have 55 mm wheels and decent tires, but no latex. I think he went 57:35…but his FTP is something like 340. He’s about 6’ and 200 pounds. I wish I was exaggerating his FTP, but even though he’s 40 pounds heavier than me, he drops me like a bad habit on climbs…even the really steep stuff.

This doesn’t make sense. Your w/kg is 3.87 (using your 281w) his 3.75. Unless its a short climb and you’re super slow twitch and hes the opposite, something doesn’t add up!

I suppose I could be underestimating his FTP. Maybe he was 195 at during peak season…but no way less than that. I’d suspect his w/kg was about .20 more than mine, if not higher.

In any case, my example was only stated just to show the OP that for a 40k TT, you can have a wide range of watts needed to go 1 hour (or 57:xx in my case) depending on equipment choices and position.

67

Yeah I wasnt trying to call you out or anything, just thought it was odd a fatty was dropping you on climbs :wink: (i can say this, im fat too)

Ditto on the variance in wattage. Ive never tried the 40k but would really like to go under 60. Wattage is there, equipment/position not so much maybe.

68

I haven’t done a 40k TT either, but last year at St. Anthony’s Olympic, which is somewhat of a technical 40k, I went 1:04 or 1:06 on 210W NP.
FTP was 235 at the time and I was 5’8" & 175 lbs.

You can definitely do it with an FTP of about 250. It’s possible I could have done it with 235 if it was a TT.

69

Yeah, you definitely don’t need 300 watts to go 40k in an hour. Most of the amateur 4-5 race fields complete 40k TT’s in 56 to 58 mins and most do not have FTPs that high. Body positioning is key, but if you have that covered, you can get away with an FTP in the 280’s and still be under an hour.

In what world are ‘most of the amateur 4-5s’ doing 56-58 minute 40Ks?

Get out of here with that.

I won our state 40K TT in Cat3 with a 56:00. Only 2 of the 22 Cat 4s were under 58:00 (57:38 and 57:51) and there was exactly 0 Cat 5s under 1:00:00.

Back to the OP. I’m 6’ and race at about 160. On the flat TT course this year, I went 56:00 on 292W. Last year was 273W for a 58:12.

In our cat 4’s, of the 16 riders, 10 were under 59:00. Even in the old guys, 50+ cat 4 you would need to be under 54 to win.

That’s impressive. What state?

Colorado

70

http://bikecalculator.com/wattsUS.html

IT is very static, but give you a decent reference point.

71

Not replying to you in particular but I’ve seen several threads talking about variances in power meters (high or low readings vs say a reading from a SRM). I wonder if part of the explanation of the different watts it takes for an individual is due to those variances. ie. my Powertap reads 10 watts high compared to your SRM so I believe it takes an extra 10 watts to hit 1 hour, everything else being equal.

72

Sounds like California/Nevada. Mabra-land (Maryland, Delaware, NoVa) is competitive, but you get 5-6 out of 16 cat-4 who finish under an hour. FWIW, i’m a frigging brick and am just pissing away power. Really gnaws at me as i’m supposed to be good at diesel efforts.

In our cat 4’s, of the 16 riders, 10 were under 59:00. Even in the old guys, 50+ cat 4 you would need to be under 54 to win.

Yes, we triathletes suck, a lowly cat 4 is stronger than 95% of us. Very good that you put this out there to keep some perspective.

well, ask cyclists (such as myself) to start running and swimming, and you’d find that we’d be a lot slower on our bikes

Well, that’s a nice thought, but as someone that was a roadie for many years and took up tri late in life, I think the tri training only slowed up my bike a little bit. But then again, I wasn’t very fast to begin with or I probably would have just stayed a roadie. 10 years of being a roadie: 3 medals. 4 years of being a triathlete: 13 medals. Now I have had more time to train in recent years and have entered more races, but still, our sport is one where consistency in mediocrity can pay off, unlike single sports. But of course we like to fool ourselves and think otherwise :slight_smile:

73

Not replying to you in particular but I’ve seen several threads talking about variances in power meters (high or low readings vs say a reading from a SRM). I wonder if part of the explanation of the different watts it takes for an individual is due to those variances. ie. my Powertap reads 10 watts high compared to your SRM so I believe it takes an extra 10 watts to hit 1 hour, everything else being equal.

FWIW, I have a powertap. But my understanding was that the PT would read the lowest power numbers because of loss of power in the drive train compared to a SRM. Other than that thought I have no other opinion. I was just giving an example to the fact that I think it can be done with an FTP around 250.

74

I am an old, fat and slow, marginal cat4 roadie. 6ft and 178 lbs on race day. In June of 2014 at 58, I went 57:33 on 281w at Church Creek, MD. It’s flat, but can be hot and windy. Not hot that day, but a little windy. Shiv, Reynolds RZR92s, Vittoria EVO CX tubies, older LG helmet, Castelli 3.0 skin suit, gloves and shoe covers. A lifetime PR for me.

Oh, and it was good for 7th out of 21 in the 55-64 age group…

In what state is 6’ 178lbs fat :slight_smile:

State of Disaster, Confusion, or Chaos - pick one! ;-))

I’m 186 now. At 6ft, you’re overweight at 184 according to BMI. Even at 186, I have a 14.75 inch neck and a 39 inch chest. I was 242 16 years ago. Keeping “fat” in my description helps be keep the weight off.

75

I went under 1 hour on 260 watts a few years ago at state TT (the only 40k TT I’ve done). I’m 6’1" and was around 185lbs at the time. I have a fairly upright, non-aggressive position on the bike.

In addition to the aero factor, the course and wind conditions have significant impact, making it hard to generalize about how many watts are required. If you get into hilly courses, times are slower and w/KG start to play into the equation more. Windy conditions also slow everyone down, but tend to favor larger riders. Hot days are faster (to a point) compared to slow days. Elevation, etc…

check out http://bikecalculator.com/

I use the iPhone app and I find it to be a pretty useful tool.

I’m planning to do the state TT 40k again this year and I’m hoping to go sub 57 at ~280 watts with some position improvements. The additional 20 watts should get me close and I think I can find the rest with position (and the course is considered faster).

76

a nice thread in relation to this one

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Post_your_average_power_(watts)_and_average_speed_(MPH)_from_your_last_race_P3499977/

.

77

With a good position 300 watts will make you go scary fast.

Yup. Though I have a Stages, so my actual power number is unknown, I rode 59:10 at Des Moines Tri, fairly accurate course, not flat, lots of turns, at 241W (“C” race 0.79 IF). At 300W, I’d go 53:00 according to Best Bike Split. Yes, scary fast. However, I’d guess that my Stages is reading about 10% low. So I really rode 265W, and 300 “true” watts would yield a 55:00, which is just a little above 70.3 Power for me, and falls in line with the guys I race against that are my size.

Yes, very fast once you get your position dialed in.

78

Not a reply to you in particular

On my Kickr it takes 260w to hit 40kph set on tri mode which says it uses a drag coefficient of 0.3457
.

79

6ft 2in 150lbs 56-57 minutes a bunch of times at 250-260w IM fla and MD at 200w in 4:50 and 4:46
.

80

Do you mean you went 4 minutes faster on 20% fewer watts? Wondering what the differences were because my knowledge of the courses is that they’re both flat and well surfaced, so the difference seems outsized

81

Agreed! I did 58:52 at the Chicago Triathlon on 250 watts and a .9 IF assuming a 285 FTP, but might have been higher. Legs felt good enough to run pretty fast off the bike. Would LOVE/(HATE) to do a true 40k TT to see what kind of watts I could put out and what the time would be. Maybe early season I will go out and find a TT and take a crack!

82

same watts at IM FLA and MD. MD is faster due to being 1.5 miles short, and incredibly smooth. Of course all bets are off if we go into the drafting at FLA.