Watching the Varia Radar Display

Triathlon Forum
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My wife has a RTL515, the new Varia Rada/Light, on her bike. The device has been discussed here several times and I have always suggested that the device is probably of little or no value under many urban and city situations. This morning my wife literally watched a van run over her from behind on her 520 plus.

She is ok, so that is out of the way.

She was on what is called the south service road of the Southern State Parkway in Suffolk County on Long Island NY this morning at 8:15 when a van came down onto the side of the road and hit her at about 40 mph. It was a hit and run and a woman behind the van stopped to help. That road is a wide 2 lane road with about a 6 foot section between the white line and the edge of the pavement. You can easily get a car off the road and not be off the pavement. Plenty of room to ride and not be “in traffic.”

She told me that she saw the vehicle on the radar display, just like she had see dozens of other vehicles on it this morning. They had all went around her. The van side swiped her.

I’m not here to bash the radar system. It does exactly what it is designed to do, and it does it exceedingly well. I have one and it is nice to look at it at an intersection before I look behind me. It tells me what to expect when I look back so there are no surprises. But as an accident prevention device I have never seen its use. The vehicle that will pass you safely looks just like the vehicle that is about to run over you, and no radar is going to differentiate those 2 vehicles.

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First of all, sorry to hear about your wife. Hopefully she’ll be back at it real soon.

The vehicle that will pass you safely looks just like the vehicle that is about to run over you, and no radar is going to differentiate those 2 vehicles.
I’m not sure anyone has ever said it’s supposed to or does. I’ve got one and love it. But, when it goes off I always take a quick glance back to be sure it’s not someone doing exactly what what happened to your wife.

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It never was advertised as being an accident prevention device. It’s designed to help prevent a bike rider from doing something stupid. Not prevent a vehicle from doing something stupid.

4

Actually, IMHO, the radar DOES do exactly what you say it doesn’t…differentiate between the two. Not in a red/green light or yes/no manner. But in letting you know through the vehicle’s behavior that it saw you up ahead.

You just have to know the difference.

On my Wahoo, as a vehicle approaches…if it approaches at a fairly constant speed, I always assume it hasn’t seen me. I can tell when a vehicle sees me. You see it approaching at a good clip, then, you suddenly notice it slow its rate of approach. It has seen you and is planning a pass.

To me, this behavior on the radar is really obvious.

Maybe it isn’t obvious on all GPS. You say 520+. I’d assume it would be able to show you the rate of approach on the display like my Wahoo does.

Either way, I’m sorry for the incident she was in and glad she made out ok!

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Wow - glad she’s okay.

For sure – if someone is going to hit me, they’re going to hit me.

I just got one and really like it, though – once I’m out of Philly and into the suburbs it’s really helpful… a lot of one lane roads without much/any shoulder and better pavement toward the center, so I like that it gives me a heads up when a car is back and I can get over. Plus, some hybrids are freakin’ quiet. I definitely feel like it’s more about my awareness than actual prevention (and the light is good, too). Sorry again about your wife getting hit (even if she’s okay it truly sucks).

6

I really like my Varia, but I definitely agree with you.

I see sooo many posts here and elsewhere about “I’m so much safer with it” and “I’ll never ride without it”, but I definitely disagree with those assertions.

The reality of the Varia, is that in the vast majority of times, there is nothing you can do with the data.

I’ve gone through the cases where it is valuable info, but they are limited, and mainly if you are about to do something risky, such as pass a slower by riding in the car lane, cutting across a road to make a left turn, or approaching a really tight bottleneck where it may better to wait it out until no cars are around.

If a car’s gonna hit you and you’re in the correct spot on the right-hand side of the road, you’re gonna get hit, Varia or not.

A strong rear blinkie (much stronger than the Varia) would absolutely afford you more REAL safety than the Varia in pretty much every situation. Even if you don’t feel like you have eyes in the back of your head.

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Actually, IMHO, the radar DOES do exactly what you say it doesn’t…differentiate between the two. Not in a red/green light or yes/no manner. But in letting you know through the vehicle’s behavior that it saw you up ahead.

You just have to know the difference.

On my Wahoo, as a vehicle approaches…if it approaches at a fairly constant speed, I always assume it hasn’t seen me. I can tell when a vehicle sees me. You see it approaching at a good clip, then, you suddenly notice it slow its rate of approach. It has seen you and is planning a pass.

To me, this behavior on the radar is really obvious.

Maybe it isn’t obvious on all GPS. You say 520+. I’d assume it would be able to show you the rate of approach on the display like my Wahoo does.

Either way, I’m sorry for the incident she was in and glad she made out ok!

Wow, sorry to hear about that accident and glad she is OK. I agree with burnthesheep’s experience on using it as data input and see the cars approach and speed change on my Garmin Edge 530. I also notice on the 530 that there is a light red and then a brighter red. I guess the light red is what Garmin calls Amber in their documentation. (…changes color based on the potential level of threat. Green indicates no vehicle is detected. Amber indicates a vehicle is approaching. Red indicates a vehicle is advancing at a high rate of speed).

I have absolutely adjusted my riding style. When on road with narrow or no shoulder, I’ll ride off the very edge of the road, but not the middle of the lane for more visibility. When I get an indication (sound and light red on the sides) of the 530, I will start to drift over nearer the edge of the road. My thinking is when the rear light triggers the driver has a better chance of seeing it if I am more in the field of vision, but not in the middle of the road, and I ease over to give more room and if they don’t see me get side swiped versus rear ended. If I get the bright red I will act more quickly and if the little dot is moving fast will check to see if I am in trouble.

Agree with you that this won’t stop a driver not paying any attention and agree on busy roads with a big shoulder, or frontage roads along highways it loses its effective for me. Sounds like what happened in your situation. But this Edge 530 and Varia is some of the best money I have ever spent in this sport for riding the majority of the places I do. On Monday I was going to go for a road ride but I forgot to charge my 530 and it was dead. I was all dressed up and chamois creamed, so I grabbed my 920XT watch and headed for the garage. I got to my bike and stopped. The Varia does not work on my 920XT (or not that I know of and have not set it up). So, I decided to ride on the trainer instead.

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You would be safer just getting a much brighter tail-light than the Varia.

I actually did that ride-in-the-road or very near-the-road until the car approaches with my Varia to improve driver visibility using your reasoning that it would be easier to see me in the road than the shoulder, but even on Foothill expressway in Norcal (popular road discussed in another thread here) the 140m warning distance of the Varia means you only get seconds to react to the beep from a car approaching at 50mph.

After getting buzzed dangerously, I decided this was an absolutely terrible idea, although it does explain when I’m driving when I see rider doing exactly this.

Get a BRIGHT tail-light and you will be seen everywhere on the right hand side of the road. If the driveris texting or not looking at the road, well, it’s a terrible all around situation.

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I also ride with a Wahoo but disagree with you on the meaning/interpretation of the various lights. Rather, I don’t assume that a particular color or change in color means that they have seen me and/or changed their behavior because of it. The colors really only mean 3 things:

Green - all clear
Orange - car approaching
Red - car approaching, fast

I’ve got no idea how the various Garmin products deal with this though as I’ve got no experience with them.

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I also ride with a Wahoo but disagree with you on the meaning/interpretation of the various lights. Rather, I don’t assume that a particular color or change in color means that they have seen me and/or changed their behavior because of it. The colors really only mean 3 things:

Green - all clear
Orange - car approaching
Red - car approaching, fast

I’ve got no idea how the various Garmin products deal with this though as I’ve got no experience with them.

If you want to see the exact speed of the closest car behind you and not rely upon the shades of red and orange, you can download the My Bike Radar Traffic app from Garmin Connect IQ. You can choose between Relative Approach Speed (the vehicle’s speed minus your speed) or Absolute Speed (the actual speed of the approaching vehicle). Set that up as a data field on your head unit, and you get a real time display showing the speed of the vehicle approaching from behind. This is much better than the orange/red shades. The best part is that I can clearly tell when/if the approaching vehicle slows down, usually indicating that they see me. I’ll still check over my shoulder and move far to the right, but I feel a little safer if the vehicle slowed from 55 to 30 mph. If I see the vehicle continuing without slowing down at all (and if there is no shoulder), I’ll take a second or third look over my shoulder and at least get prepared to bale into the grass.

https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/c5d949c3-9acb-4e00-bb2d-c3b871e9e733

DC Rainmaker’s review of the My Bike Radar Traffic app. He wrote this before they added the real-time speed display functionality - https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/05/varia-radar-maps-connect-app.html

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If you want to see the exact speed of the closest car behind you and not rely upon the shades of red and orange, you can download the My Bike Radar Traffic app from Garmin Connect IQ.

Unless of course you use a Wahoo … as I mentioned.

Otherwise, it’s a great app.

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I also ride with a Wahoo but disagree with you on the meaning/interpretation of the various lights. Rather, I don’t assume that a particular color or change in color means that they have seen me and/or changed their behavior because of it. The colors really only mean 3 things:

Green - all clear
Orange - car approaching
Red - car approaching, fast

I’ve got no idea how the various Garmin products deal with this though as I’ve got no experience with them.
Same on a Garmin 530- love my Varia BTW.

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I also ride with a Wahoo but disagree with you on the meaning/interpretation of the various lights. Rather, I don’t assume that a particular color or change in color means that they have seen me and/or changed their behavior because of it. The colors really only mean 3 things:

Green - all clear
Orange - car approaching
Red - car approaching, fast

I’ve got no idea how the various Garmin products deal with this though as I’ve got no experience with them.

That’s how the 520 works as well. What many are missing is speed does not determine course. A car overtaking fast might be safe, and that slow car can hit you, and no radar can predict the difference.

Also, it is common to have 3 to 7 contacts on my 520 for miles. Literally a constant stream of vehicles passing. In my wife’s case it was a van that struck her and then 3 more cars drove by before the nice old lady pulled over to render assistance. That makes her the 5th wheel, to coin a bike racing term, and she was close enough to see the entire event.

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Hope your wife is ok. I’ve been a brake hood mirror user for almost 20 years and just recently have been riding with the Varia displayed on a Garmin 1030. I’ve probably rode over a thousand miles using both on mostly quiet country roads and I’ve found that I still pick up the cars sooner on my mirror than on the radar and I will still use the mirror to track the car(s) as it passes. I do like having the Varia audible alert to keep me honest and the I use the display on the 1030 as another safety tool to keep me riding. I also really like the rear light. If had to choose between the mirror and Varia I would take the mirror every time.

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Good tip. I do have an Exposure rear light as well. The higher speed roads that I ride around here tend to have more of a shoulder and thus I don’t need to ride in the lane at all. Have had very few instances where the Varia did not give me adequate warning time, but it has happened on a couple of instances. Honestly, I think most people that pass super close do it intentionally.

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But in letting you know through the vehicle’s behavior that it saw you up ahead.

You just have to know the difference.

I don’t agree, and I’ve use the Varia with Wahoo.

I disagree both that cars consistently moderate their speed when approaching a cyclist from behind, and that it’s easy to see on the Varia, unless you stare at tje screen for a good amount of time. Which I don’t. I like to mostly keep my eyes up the road, and glance down.

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I really like my Varia, but I definitely agree with you.

I see sooo many posts here and elsewhere about “I’m so much safer with it” and “I’ll never ride without it”, but I definitely disagree with those assertions.

The reality of the Varia, is that in the vast majority of times, there is nothing you can do with the data.

I agree. I read over and over that everyone who gets a Varia loves it. So I got one.

And so far I’ve been mildly disappointed. It works OK. But I just don’t find it useful very often. My primary use is it’s helpful to let me know when I don’t need to bother looking over my shoulder in anticipation of a turn. Only when the Varia says it’s clear do I then do the final visual look before crossing a lane. That’s somewhat useful. And it’s also useful in country roads where I take the whole lane - in that case if a car is coming from behind, I can move over to let them pass well in advance.

That’s about it. I don’t feel it makes me much safer overall - it’s just a convenience.

I’ll probably keep using it because it’s a net benefit, and the light is pretty good. But it’s not the “game changer” I was expecting.

18

I really like my Varia, but I definitely agree with you.

I see sooo many posts here and elsewhere about “I’m so much safer with it” and “I’ll never ride without it”, but I definitely disagree with those assertions.

The reality of the Varia, is that in the vast majority of times, there is nothing you can do with the data.

I’m not going to say you’re wrong in your own experience, but I’ll say that in the month or two I’ve had my Varia, my experience doesn’t match yours.

On the type of roads I ride, it gives me a much earlier warning. It sounds like the roads that I really use the Varia on (relatively light trafficked, narrow, poor shoulder, 2lane) are different than the rides that AutomatickJack’s wife got hit on (busy roads.) Counter-intuitively, I feel like the Varia is actually *best *on roads with very light traffic. It alerts me FAR earlier than I could ever hear them, which gives me time to put my bottle back, make sure I’m as far over as possible (even if that means riding in loose gravel I’d typically be avoiding), look back and identify how much space they’re giving me, and act accordingly. That’s probably the key with the Varia: It’s like a fitbit. Wearing one and not changing your behavior won’t help you; you actually have to use the info it provides in an actionable sense and change how you ride. Without a Varia, you only have the time from hearing the car onward to react. With a Varia, you have 10-20s to react and ‘settle in’ for a pass.

It’s undoubtedly true that there’s no “you’re about to get hit” alarm, and it would be improved if there was. For me though, I will say unequivocally that I feel more comfortable with more information about what’s happening behind me, I have more time to react, and it lets me focus on the road ahead while keeping it keeps me informed about what’s behind. I’ve been very critical of Garmin in the past, but the Varia is money I’d spend again.

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It is part of a concept known as situational awareness.
The device does just that, improves your situational awareness of what is around you.
I can’t think of any device that will stop a driver from wilfully hitting you if that is their intent. Can’t think of why you would argue that the Garmin should be doing just that??

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As others have said, sorry to hear about your wife.
I have a Varia and love it. It keeps me from feeling like I need to constantly keep looking over my shoulder. When I get an alert I glance back to see what’s approaching.
I disagree with the “get a brighter tail light” comments. If a driver is distracted enough to hit someone then, in my opinion, the brightness of the light is not going to matter. A brighter light is not going to make someone look up from their phone while they’re driving.