VT1 and VO2 Max

Triathlon Forum
1

Hi all,

I’ve been reading f the forum for a while. Just decided to post for the first time as I’ve had some issues and I know there are some smart people here that may be of some help.

Long story short I’ve had unexplained shortness of breath with exercise for months. Docs can find nothing cardiac or pulmonary to suggest a problem. I decided to seek out a CPET with local physiologist as I wasn’t getting anywhere with the docs. My Vo2 was fine. It was 48. Which for my age and stats is 114% predicted. Nothing to brag about but still better than average and I haven’t been exercising like I used to due to my breathing issues.

My concern was the VT1, which came in at 44% of Vo2 max.

Anyone out there with knowledge of VAT that might weigh in with an opinion here? I’m still learning about the VT1, but it certainly has me awfully curious given it’s way lower than it should be.

I’ll attach the numbers in case you’re curious.

2

Hey Mikefit - I’m new to metabolic testing and definitely no expert, but I am happy to help if possible. I can reach out to my mentor and try and get some more information for you if I can ascertain exactly what you think is going on. Also, disclaimer for any thread like this, I’m not a doctor and am not trying to give you medical advice. You should absolutely contact your MD and direct your questions to her/him.

First, if you can attach the test results or send them to me, that would help. My email is matt at matthewrjohnson dot com - part of the difficulty in trying to figure out what you are asking is that VO2 Max and VT1 aren’t really measured in the same units. VT1 occurs when your respiration frequency increases as you’re beginning to retain lactate in your blood and tissues and can be measured as frequency of respiration or the associated heart rate. VO2 Max, as you reported it, is milliliters of oxygen per kilogram of body weight per minute, so mL/kg/min. I don’t want to assume, but my guess is that you’re saying that the VT1 is 44% of the maximum heart rate you achieved in the ramp test which should be close to your maximum heart rate, but may not be depending on how hard you went. Was a spirometry measurement taken too? You probably would have been asked to wear a nose plug and blow all of your air out and then blow into a small device as hard and as long as you could? If so, those results would be helpful too.

For an example, my last ramp test performed on myself, my VT1 happened at about 83% of my maximum heart rate.

3

Thanks a lot. I think the email address maybe came out wrong? I attached my CPET results. I really appreciate it. Pass it on to whomever. It means a lot.

4

For some reason it’s not allowing me to add the attachment. But here is some more info…

My VT1 was 1.42 L/min and occurred at 21, or 44% of my Vo2 max of 48 ml/min/kg.

HR max was 188/min
RER 1.18
BFmax 40/min

Glad to email it to you along with my PFT. Been concerned about small airways. Not asthma.

FVC 120%
FEV1 110%
FEV1/FVC 71%
DLCO 113%

5

For some reason it’s not allowing me to add the attachment. But here is some more info…

My VT1 was 1.42 L/min and occurred at 21, or 44% of my Vo2 max of 48 ml/min/kg.

HR max was 188/min
RER 1.18
BFmax 40/min

Glad to email it to you along with my PFT. Been concerned about small airways. Not asthma.

FVC 120%
FEV1 110%
FEV1/FVC 71%
DLCO 113%

That helps. Your VO2 was at 44% of your VO2 Max when you hit VT1. That makes more sense.

Let me dig around a little and see what I can come up with.

6

I just checked my results from last year’s test and notice slightly different nr’s
basically:
VO2 at AT: 63% of VO2max (or 55%, see below!)
VO2 at AeT: 86% of VO2max

HOWEVER with some remarks:

  1. VO2max as measured was highest VO2 avg. during 30seconds!; if I remember correctly, the true max. was 15% higher; meaning that my AT would be at 55%
  2. the test revealed that my AT was slightly underdeveloped (ie basically too much high intensity training and too little base… I think this means that my AT% could be better/higher with more base training; possibly this is the case for you as well?)
  3. and finally, I’ve also been feeling somewhat short of breath regularly (esp. in lower zones, not really affecting max. performance) … however since a couple of months I am inclined to think this is related to pool-swimming (chlorine response) as this feeling is worst on days where I did a swim training, and during pool-closure I cannot recall this feeling when I think of it.
7

Hi all,

I’ve been reading f the forum for a while. Just decided to post for the first time as I’ve had some issues and I know there are some smart people here that may be of some help.

Long story short I’ve had unexplained shortness of breath with exercise for months. Docs can find nothing cardiac or pulmonary to suggest a problem. I decided to seek out a CPET with local physiologist as I wasn’t getting anywhere with the docs. My Vo2 was fine. It was 48. Which for my age and stats is 114% predicted. Nothing to brag about but still better than average and I haven’t been exercising like I used to due to my breathing issues.

My concern was the VT1, which came in at 44% of Vo2 max.

Anyone out there with knowledge of VAT that might weigh in with an opinion here? I’m still learning about the VT1, but it certainly has me awfully curious given it’s way lower than it should be.

I’ll attach the numbers in case you’re curious.

While 44% is technically low, I would initially question the accuracy of the chosen VT1. Often the automatic values are suspect and those chosen through inspection are dependent on the skill and knowledge of the tester.

Do you have other measures? Blood panels, Oxygen saturations, etc.

Additionally, this would not be a “cause” of your shortness of breath. The underlying mechanism would still be unknown.

In my experience “shortness of breath” is a very difficult symptom to understand because it means many things to many people. Can you describe further what this means to you, if / when you felt a change, what events preceded that change (ie moved to a new house, got a dog, etc.)

8

Hi all,

I’ve been reading f the forum for a while. Just decided to post for the first time as I’ve had some issues and I know there are some smart people here that may be of some help.

Long story short I’ve had unexplained shortness of breath with exercise for months. Docs can find nothing cardiac or pulmonary to suggest a problem. I decided to seek out a CPET with local physiologist as I wasn’t getting anywhere with the docs. My Vo2 was fine. It was 48. Which for my age and stats is 114% predicted. Nothing to brag about but still better than average and I haven’t been exercising like I used to due to my breathing issues.

My concern was the VT1, which came in at 44% of Vo2 max.

Anyone out there with knowledge of VAT that might weigh in with an opinion here? I’m still learning about the VT1, but it certainly has me awfully curious given it’s way lower than it should be.

I’ll attach the numbers in case you’re curious.

While 44% is technically low, I would initially question the accuracy of the chosen VT1. Often the automatic values are suspect and those chosen through inspection are dependent on the skill and knowledge of the tester.

Do you have other measures? Blood panels, Oxygen saturations, etc.

Additionally, this would not be a “cause” of your shortness of breath. The underlying mechanism would still be unknown.

In my experience “shortness of breath” is a very difficult symptom to understand because it means many things to many people. Can you describe further what this means to you, if / when you felt a change, what events preceded that change (ie moved to a new house, got a dog, etc.)

Unexplained, although it’s likely related to acid reflux disease. I get short of breath after eating and with exertion. Can’t reach top of my breath. I’m very fit, so I can push through this inconvenience, although I’m not myself. Could be a small airways issue, although it’s not asthma as inhalers do nothing. I had a surgery to correct the reflux. Took 8 weeks off exercise. Had a cpet test at 8 weeks and Vo2 was 32 or 88% predicted. Started working out for 3 weeks, 1 mile timed runs, was at 10 mins and now I’m under 8:00. It jumped to 48 or 114% predicted in just 3 weeks time. However, VT1 remained low in both tests. My physiologist seems to think it’s no big deal in regards to VT1. Says to not work so hard and to slow the heart rate. Essentially, go back to 10:00 mile runs. He seems to think that will boost VT1.

No blood panels. I can’t upload my results for some reason. If anyone knows how to upload a file let me know. Always says size too large. All other results from test were normal, but my physiologist mentioned I had one of the lowest lipid measurements he’s seen. Apparently I don’t burn fats well. Was a bit beyond my comprehension as I’m new to it all.

9

…
1 mile timed runs, was at 10 mins and now I’m under 8:00. It jumped to 48 or 114% predicted in just 3 weeks time. However, VT1 remained low in both tests. My physiologist seems to think it’s no big deal in regards to VT1. Says to not work so hard and to slow the heart rate. Essentially, go back to 10:00 mile runs. He seems to think that will boost VT1.

No blood panels. I can’t upload my results for some reason. If anyone knows how to upload a file let me know. Always says size too large. All other results from test were normal, but my physiologist mentioned I had one of the lowest lipid measurements he’s seen. Apparently I don’t burn fats well. Was a bit beyond my comprehension as I’m new to it all.

Can you take screenshot and downsize the jpeg? ST has tight file size limits.

Low lipids is great.

Anyone who has a low recent training volume will be bad at burning fats. No worries there.

Any training will improve that. More training volume is important though, and it’s a lot easier to accumulate volume when training at lower intensity than higher intensities. Doing a mix of higher and lower intensities is just fine. But, given you haven’t been training for a while, you don’t NEED to do the higher-intensity work, and can reap substantial benefit from lower-intensity work. High-intensity training will just fast track those VO2max gains, if only to leave you a little more fatigued than necessary.

10

I think I may have figured out how to reduce the file size.

EAB2A0E1-7CFF-40D0-B008-9C83FF96269A.jpeg
CDFF7132-6763-4724-ADE8-4066F629E16D.jpeg
539EF9DE-E1A2-40CF-AA4E-0FEAA99834AE.jpeg

11

Hi all,

I’ve been reading f the forum for a while. Just decided to post for the first time as I’ve had some issues and I know there are some smart people here that may be of some help.

Long story short I’ve had unexplained shortness of breath with exercise for months. Docs can find nothing cardiac or pulmonary to suggest a problem. I decided to seek out a CPET with local physiologist as I wasn’t getting anywhere with the docs. My Vo2 was fine. It was 48. Which for my age and stats is 114% predicted. Nothing to brag about but still better than average and I haven’t been exercising like I used to due to my breathing issues.

My concern was the VT1, which came in at 44% of Vo2 max.

Anyone out there with knowledge of VAT that might weigh in with an opinion here? I’m still learning about the VT1, but it certainly has me awfully curious given it’s way lower than it should be.

I’ll attach the numbers in case you’re curious.

While 44% is technically low, I would initially question the accuracy of the chosen VT1. Often the automatic values are suspect and those chosen through inspection are dependent on the skill and knowledge of the tester.

Do you have other measures? Blood panels, Oxygen saturations, etc.

Additionally, this would not be a “cause” of your shortness of breath. The underlying mechanism would still be unknown.

In my experience “shortness of breath” is a very difficult symptom to understand because it means many things to many people. Can you describe further what this means to you, if / when you felt a change, what events preceded that change (ie moved to a new house, got a dog, etc.)

Unexplained, although it’s likely related to acid reflux disease. I get short of breath after eating and with exertion. Can’t reach top of my breath. I’m very fit, so I can push through this inconvenience, although I’m not myself. Could be a small airways issue, although it’s not asthma as inhalers do nothing. I had a surgery to correct the reflux. Took 8 weeks off exercise. Had a cpet test at 8 weeks and Vo2 was 32 or 88% predicted. Started working out for 3 weeks, 1 mile timed runs, was at 10 mins and now I’m under 8:00. It jumped to 48 or 114% predicted in just 3 weeks time. However, VT1 remained low in both tests. My physiologist seems to think it’s no big deal in regards to VT1. Says to not work so hard and to slow the heart rate. Essentially, go back to 10:00 mile runs. He seems to think that will boost VT1.

No blood panels. I can’t upload my results for some reason. If anyone knows how to upload a file let me know. Always says size too large. All other results from test were normal, but my physiologist mentioned I had one of the lowest lipid measurements he’s seen. Apparently I don’t burn fats well. Was a bit beyond my comprehension as I’m new to it all.

not a doctor, no real first hand experience, just my 2ct. My wife suffered from reflux and as a consequence her lungs became very sensitive. Basically, any stress like dust or deep inhalation were problematic.
Maybe your lungs as well are still just very sensitive and maybe you have some very low level of inflammation still lingering around in your lungs. For my wife, after fixing the reflux going on a cortisone inhaler for a few weeks solved all the issues.

Good luck
Uli

12

Some of those numbers like V’E being lower are a bit confusing to me. I tried looking up what V’E is, but it’s over my head. I posted some screen shots in my previous reply.

13

TLDR: you have a decent VO2max, but are a glycolytic (carb-burning) machine, due to lack of recent training volume. Get back to training consistently and all will be well. Run slower and longer, and keep pace changes very modest and your breathing may get better.

Longer version:
I wouldn’t bother getting too down in the weeds here in the numbers for the sake of the numbers. It’s common for more fit folks (higher VO2max) to have ventilatory thresholds be lower, as a percentage of their VO2max.

It would be expected for VO2max to rise rapidly with the re-onset of training, towards prior values, but their might be some lag in the rise of your ventilatory threshold. Reason: blood volume increase rapidly with return-to-training and is a primary driver of VO2max due to it’s tight relationship with cardiac output. Ventilatory threshold however is more related to metabolism, which I suspect is more dependent on recent cumulative training volume.

I think we could expect to find very similar results in track and field sprinters or 400m runners specifically, who may have inadvertently pushed their VO2max rather high, but with little ability to operate in the relative absence of glycolysis. This was certainly the case for me, when I was a decathlete. VO2max was 63 mL/kg/min, and could run a 4:57 1500m, but there was no chance in the world I was going under 20 minutes in a 5k, or under 5 hours in a marathon.

The breathing issues are another thing. More training volume may help them, independently. Both exercise induced bronchoconstriction (EIB) and vocal chord dysfunction (VCD) tend to be more strongly induced by rapid rate of exercise onset or rapid increase of pace or effort. ie… 1 mile runs. If you have EIB or VCD, both of which feel like “can’t get air in, and can’t get a full breath,” you should run longer and slower at first to build fitness. Both may just be something you have to work around. Both my wife and I have prominent VCD and both of us have occasional, milder EIB, often only triggered when their are other lung irritants present AND we’re pushing pace rapidly or doing interval work (mowed grass, chemicals in indoor pool air, are the most common irritants). FYI, VCD feels like breathing through a straw. EIB feels like lungs not accepting air.

If you have EIB, and are not getting results with an albuterol inhaler, make sure you’re using a spacer. If you’re not, a majority of the dose may be just landing on the back of your throat rather than the constricted airways.

If you have VCD, positioning your mouth and throat as if you are going to sing a deep/low “OOOHHH” or very deep “AAAHHH” can help relax the throat and facilitate easier breathing. This can be done during intense exercise, or in recovery. It’s mission-critical for both Michelle and I when doing interval work.