"Vile but unsurprising"

Lavender Room
1

Nikki Haley at a campaign event:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/28/nikki-haley-civil-war-slavery

The questioner:
“In the year 2023, it’s astonishing to me that you answer that question without mentioning the word slavery,”

Haley, of course, continues beating around the bush with more obfuscation. Haley is from SC and was once the governor of the state. And SC’s ordinance of secession, the 1860 proclamation by the state government outlining its reasons for seceding from the Union, mentions slavery in its opening sentence and points to the “increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery” as a reason for the state removing itself from the Union.

Whoops.

2

Nikki Haley at a campaign event:
https://www.theguardian.com/...ey-civil-war-slavery

The questioner:
“In the year 2023, it’s astonishing to me that you answer that question without mentioning the word slavery,”

Haley, of course, continues beating around the bush with more obfuscation. Haley is from SC and was once the governor of the state. And SC’s ordinance of secession, the 1860 proclamation by the state government outlining its reasons for seceding from the Union, mentions slavery in its opening sentence and points to the “increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery” as a reason for the state removing itself from the Union.

Whoops.
Hell, her state mentioned slavery in its reason for seceding…

3

I’m watching her attempt to clean this up in a town hall in New Hampshire at the moment.

It is going very, very poorly.

You can’t clean up aisle six by dumping more mud on the spill. She is leading with “Of course it was about slavery” but then goes on and on about individual freedom, the role of government, and so on. It is pathetic. She’s counting votes and is terrified of losing the Confederate flag crowd.

4

She responded with a rehearsed canned answer that was not responsive to the question.

The answer is also significantly more nuanced than “slavery” but I wouldn’t expect a politician to be bothered to a) know that b) communicate that.

5

Just seeing same. Spin, dance, be ambiguous. Something, something, by the grace of God.

What a complete fraud. No duh.

6

There are still various people on the internet out there who put on a straight “serious historian” face and calmly explain that the Civil War wasn’t about slavery. States’ rights Kool-Aid. A few on this forum over the years - but don’t think any current posters.

7

The answer is also significantly more nuanced than “slavery” but I wouldn’t expect a politician to be bothered to a) know that b) communicate that.

what nuance? After Lincoln won, southern states were afraid that would mean a limitation on slavery, so they seceded.

8

So the person leading the Republican primary is basically quoting Hitler saying that immigrants are poisoning the blood of the country. And Haley thinks that saying slavery happened would hurt her chances by admitting a bunch of white people killed lots of Americans to enslave black people.

That doesn’t mean the gop is not a racist cesspool though. Would be crazy to suggest that.

9

I think the funniest part is that she is blaming this on the person asking the question, claiming they were a a Democratic plant.

https://x.com/newhampjournal/status/1740375525754052846?s=46&t=GnXKV1ghhjJ-gpfjpVyTqg

Which apparently is just admitting that democrats know she can’t answer the question honestly, because that would upset the racists.

10

I think the funniest part is that she is blaming this on the person asking the question, claiming they were a a Democratic plant.

https://x.com/...XKV1ghhjJ-gpfjpVyTqg

Which apparently is just admitting that democrats know she can’t answer the question honestly, because that would upset the racists.

You make a very important point.

Her thinking must be along the lines of, “The Democrats know I can’t answer this without looking bad or losing votes or offending people (etc.), and a Republican would never ask this question, therefore this question was asked by a Democrat. And given that he could only ask one question and would want to ask one that is particularly damaging, asking me what started the Civil War was the choice. Instead of asking something like ‘Was January 6th an insurrection?’ they got all clever and asked me about the worst period in the history of the country.”

This all says so many bad things about her.

11

I think the funniest part is that she is blaming this on the person asking the question, claiming they were a a Democratic plant.

https://x.com/...XKV1ghhjJ-gpfjpVyTqg

Which apparently is just admitting that democrats know she can’t answer the question honestly, because that would upset the racists.

This is the game. Stefanik played the trap on on the 3 college presidents. Can’t whine when someone plays the trap on you. And this trap was just as obvious and easy to answer correctly as Stefanik’s. Just shows how eagerly she feels she needs to not upset the “deplorable vote.”

12

If a candidate can’t answer this question honestly without worrying about pissing people off, they have no business in leadership.

I thought her mop up job took it from bad to worse.

13

This is insanely amateur for a woman who’s been Governor of a southern state and the Amabassador to the United Nations.

“What was the cause of the United States Civil War?” said the man, who later declined to give his name.

“Well, don’t come with an easy question or anything. I mean, I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run the freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do,” the former governor of South Carolina initially responded.

She then asked the attendee what he thought caused the Civil War…

The attendee then said, “Thank you. In the year 2023, it’s astonishing to me that you answered that question without mentioning the word slavery.”

“What do you want me to say about slavery?” Haley asked the man.

It’s not a Rorschach Test or gotcha question, Ambassador. It’s a matter of knowing your nation’s history and being able to speak the truth about it without worrying about how extremists may perceive your answer.

“Last night I was asked about the Civil War and what I think of the Civil War. What was the cause of the Civil War?”

“Of course, the Civil War was about slavery. We know that. That’s unquestioned. Always the case. We know the Civil War was about slavery, but it was also more than that. It was about the freedoms of every individual. It was about the role of government,” she said.

“For 80 years, America had the decision and the moral question of whether slavery was a good thing and whether government, economically, culturally, any other reasons, had a role to play in that.”

“By the grace of God, we did the right thing and slavery is no more but the lessons of what the bigger issue with the Civil War are is that let’s not forget what came out of that, which is: Government’s role, individual liberties, freedom for every single person, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to do and be anything you want to be without anyone or government getting in your way. That should be the goal of what we always try to take away from that, right?”

And by doing the right thing, she means the President and the Union did the right thing by destroying the Confederacy and with it the institution of slavery. I’m not sure what her small government platitudes and the Bill of Rights have to do with the former in the same conversation, or why that’s the more important takeaway, but that’s her mess to unmake.

14

The influence of the trump nutter GQP philosophy, in terms of running away at full speed from actual facts and, when convenient, making up “alternative facts” cannot be over stated.

We are entering completely new territory.

Well, maybe not completely new …

'War Is Peace,
Freedom Is Slavery,
Ignorance Is Strength"

15

This is the most troubling part of her attempted clean up:

“… but it was also more than that. It was about the freedoms of every individual. It was about the role of government,” she said.

That’s the part where she is trying to sneak in some babble that justifies what the Confederacy did. That is a dog whistle to the “State’s rights” crowd with the Confederate flags on their cars and trucks. That’s the part that she hopes will enable the Deplorables to say, “Yeah, she gets it… freedom… something, something.”

16

This is the most troubling part of her attempted clean up:

“… but it was also more than that. It was about the freedoms of every individual. It was about the role of government,” she said.

That’s the part where she is trying to sneak in some babble that justifies what the Confederacy did. That is a dog whistle to the “State’s rights” crowd with the Confederate flags on their cars and trucks. That’s the part that she hopes will enable the Deplorables to say, “Yeah, she gets it… freedom… something, something.”

I wouldn’t say sneak in, it seems more like she’s trying to pivot away from a “controversial issue” and get back on message.

17

This is the most troubling part of her attempted clean up:

“… but it was also more than that. It was about the freedoms of every individual. It was about the role of government,” she said.

That’s the part where she is trying to sneak in some babble that justifies what the Confederacy did. That is a dog whistle to the “State’s rights” crowd with the Confederate flags on their cars and trucks. That’s the part that she hopes will enable the Deplorables to say, “Yeah, she gets it… freedom… something, something.”

I wouldn’t say sneak in, it seems more like she’s trying to pivot away from a “controversial issue” and get back on message.

Then why not say, “The cause of the Civil War was slavery. Period. But that was a long time ago. I’m here to talk about the future of this great country…” and then proceed to do so?

18

This is the most troubling part of her attempted clean up:

“… but it was also more than that. It was about the freedoms of every individual. It was about the role of government,” she said.

That’s the part where she is trying to sneak in some babble that justifies what the Confederacy did. That is a dog whistle to the “State’s rights” crowd with the Confederate flags on their cars and trucks. That’s the part that she hopes will enable the Deplorables to say, “Yeah, she gets it… freedom… something, something.”

I wouldn’t say sneak in, it seems more like she’s trying to pivot away from a “controversial issue” and get back on message.

Then why not say, “The cause of the Civil War was slavery. Period. But that was a long time ago. I’m here to talk about the future of this great country…” and then proceed to do so?

Assuming she was capable of weighing up that sort of decision in the moment, I’d say she wouldn’t want to say something like that because of fears of alienating some of her base in the GOP.

19

I think the funniest part is that she is blaming this on the person asking the question, claiming they were a a Democratic plant.

https://x.com/newhampjournal/status/1740375525754052846?s=46&t=GnXKV1ghhjJ-gpfjpVyTqg

Which apparently is just admitting that democrats know she can’t answer the question honestly, because that would upset the racists.

I remember when Republicans were about personal responsibility. Now whenever they do something stupid it is because the Democrats forced them to do something stupid.Â

20

This is the most troubling part of her attempted clean up:

“… but it was also more than that. It was about the freedoms of every individual. It was about the role of government,” she said.

That’s the part where she is trying to sneak in some babble that justifies what the Confederacy did. That is a dog whistle to the “State’s rights” crowd with the Confederate flags on their cars and trucks. That’s the part that she hopes will enable the Deplorables to say, “Yeah, she gets it… freedom… something, something.”

I wouldn’t say sneak in, it seems more like she’s trying to pivot away from a “controversial issue” and get back on message.

Then why not say, “The cause of the Civil War was slavery. Period. But that was a long time ago. I’m here to talk about the future of this great country…” and then proceed to do so?

Assuming she was capable of weighing up that sort of decision in the moment, I’d say she wouldn’t want to say something like that because of fears of alienating some of her base in the GOP.

As a candidate has Halley ever taken a position on anything that mattred? As Gov she order the Confederate flag taken down but she’s backed off of that position. It’s like she’s just hanging around hoping that Donnie picks her for the Prom.