I’ve read comments by what I consider fast swimmers who found the Finding Freestyle program useful.
Has anyone tried it who started out swimming slower than 2min/100y?
If so, how much if any did it help?
Thanks.
Last year my Oly pace was 2:04/100 yds and my IM pace was 2:23/100. I’ve swam 7 years and had many private swim lessons with 4 different swim coaches and haven’t gotten faster last 4 years and quite frustrated with lack of progress.
I’m in week 8 of FF. I’m impressed with the program, learning things I haven’t previously and gaining body awareness with the drills, workouts I’m doing with the program. Robert and Dave via forum and emails have been helpful with my questions and gave me some suggestions after posting videos.
I’ve gotten faster since I started the program not quite PB speed but am still work in progress.
One big plus is I look forward to swims, the workouts and the discovery process and has kept me swimming.
The value of the program, the materials, support and forum is huge compared to the $$ I have spent on swim coaches.
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caf0 - we have found that many of the early adopters online are faster swimmers who are just looking for a “little edge”. That said, in our in-person classes we have had 10 people in the last 2 sessions coming in above 2:00 per 100 and here are their results:
Pre-FF Week 12 Comments
7:01:00 6:13:00
8:54:00 8:17:00
5:53:00 5:24:00 * 2nd time through FF, first time 6 weeks tt = 6:13
8:17:00 7:11:00 * first time is week 6, could not swim 25 yards at beginning of program
7:15:00 6:10:00 * first time is week 6, could not swim 25 yards at beginning of program
7:11:00 6:09:00 * first time is week 6, no previous best time known
6:13:00 5:41:00 * first time is week 6, no previous best time known
6:57:00 6:16:00 * first time is week 6, no previous best time known
7:30:00 5:30:00 * athlete currently in FF, 2nd time is week #6
8:54:00 8:17:00 * athlete at Duathlon Worlds and missed second TT, 2nd time is week #6
I can’t guarantee that this is what will happen for all 2:00+ swimmers who do the online, but we have a very minimalist approach to on deck coaching (we don’t do “corrections”, we just make sure the drills are done right), so my guess/hope is that the same thing would apply to online folks (especially if they take advantage of our forum and video review of their drills).
thanks for the opportunity to address this aspect of our program,
r.b.
Prior to finding freestyle I was a solid 2:00/100 yrd guy. I’ve been doing Tri’s for about 5 years. I’m an adult onset swimmer and I’ve had about 3 or 4 coaching sessions over those 5 years. Open water races w/ a wetsuit I average around 1:50/100 (about the same w/ a pull buoy in the pool). I’m finishing up wk 12 of finding freestyle this week. A 300 TT is assigned @ wk 6 and wk 12.
Week 6: 300 meter TT = 5:40 (1:44/100yds)
Week 12: 300 meter TT = 5:30 (1:40/100yds)
1:40/100 yds avg isn’t fast for most on this board, but it’s fast for me. Prior to finding freestyle I could swim 1:40/100 x ONE.
Robert and Dave go out of their way to answer questions and provide support. In my opinion they have developed an awesome product.
Your post is of much interest to me, since I’m in much the same situation that you were in. My swim pace in my one IM to date was slightly slower even than yours, and like you I have been through private swim lessons with various different people over the years.
Some questions:
How have you gotten the videos made to email to FF? Also, were they underwater, above-water, or both?
Did most of the advice you got from them seem to be individualized, deriving from what they saw in the videos, or was it more generic?
How much of the workouts is devoted to technique correction vs. building general swim fitness through intervals and other timed swims?
Your post is of much interest to me, since I’m in much the same situation that you were in. My swim pace in my one IM to date was slightly slower even than yours, and like you I have been through private swim lessons with various different people over the years.
Some questions:
How have you gotten the videos made to email to FF? Also, were they underwater, above-water, or both?
Did most of the advice you got from them seem to be individualized, deriving from what they saw in the videos, or was it more generic?
How much of the workouts is devoted to technique correction vs. building general swim fitness through intervals and other timed swims?
Rob I think your question was directed to me.
I have a digital camera that takes movies both above and under water I bought a year or two ago specifically for swim videos. Once you sign up for the program you have access to their forums. I have my husband or kids take videos of me above the water doing the different drills I’m working on that week and often my standard free. I edit them and post them to an on line site, I use viemo, and I post the link and my thoughts/questions to the FF forum. Robert and/or Dave look at them and give me feedback. Feedback is directed at me based on my comments and what they see. It’s thought provoking as it is a process of discovery and they guide me. First week I took videos and looked at them I could clearly tell I was doing one drill wrong just by watching myself. They agreed and gave me some pointers how to do it better. Other main drill I didn’t see big flaw in what I was doing but they pointed it out. Sometimes they ask me to do more video of this or that and post links to it.
I did IMFL in November and started FF 2 weeks later. I would say it isn’t technique correction but more exploring and having your body figure out what is best for you to swim. Check out their website as they explain it much better than I do. I swim 45-75’ 4x a week. Some of the drills early on I was slow focusing on them but now many of the things I do are swimming with a slight twist to it so a person on deck might not even notice I was doing something other than normal free.
It is a combination of drill work, integrating new concepts into your swimming, both fast and slow swimming and technique focuses.
I use their workouts as my swim workouts for the week. I feel both my technique and fitness is improving. For my longer swim I just will repeat a part of their supplemental workout so I get in the time/distance I’m aiming for.
I’m a number analytical person and the workouts appeal to the way I think and keeps my mind engaged so time in the pool goes by much faster than normal.
For me swimming has been a constant struggle with lack of improvement with putting lots of time and money into it. Finding Freestyle has given me hope that my swim can improve. After 1:48, 1:47 and 1:40 IM swims I’m hoping this year to make some significant gains.
Wow sounds like I need to sign up…i am sooo slow in the pool. Never heard of this but did the whole TI thing which gave me the basics but doesn’t help you progress much past learning to balance.
Thanks, that just the information I was looking for. Now I need to figure out about the video camera, and then determine just when I can best make time for such a program within my future training plans.
Thanks, that just the information I was looking for. Now I need to figure out about the video camera, and then determine just when I can best make time for such a program within my future training plans.
Many of the $100-150 small digital cameras now take videos. My kid’s cameras all take them and the quality is not bad depends on who takes videos though.
Good luck…and hope the program helps!
Rob,
Just a quick note on the cameras, some of our folks have just had the lifeguard shoot them with their iPhone. In my experience, everything we need to see can be viewed from above the water, even if there are flaws below the water, they are most often caused by the stuff visible from above. It is quite amazing at how adequate the mobile phone video is for these purposes.
regards,
r.b.
How do I get started on one of these programs? I am quite slow and it would be great with some techniques and training plans that could make me swim faster.
How do I get started on one of these programs? I am quite slow and it would be great with some techniques and training plans that could make me swim faster.
Here is the website and lot of information.
Slowman wrote a fascinating article on swimming technique that may have been called something like, “The High Cost of Efficiency” or something similar. It’s rattling around on this forum and is worth searching for.
In it, he makes a comparison between high -efficiency airliners like the Boeing Dreamliner and how they have to first acheive a specific speed and altitude before they become optimally efficient. Slowman (Dan Empfied, the fellow who owns this website) points out the same is true of swimming- that a swimmer must achieve a certain velocity through the water before the benefits of most efficiencies are truly realized.
I never understood this until I went to a swim camp (one of many- I’ve never been a great swimmer so I’ve gotten a lot of help) in the Dutch Antilles on the island of Curacao with the late Doug Stern. We were doing an open water crossing of an ocean section that spanned a three mile bay in the Caribbean. We swam across the mouth of the bay to the hotel we were staying at, The Lion’s Dive, in Curacao. We started the swim by jumping off a boat moored about 2.5 miles from the hotel as the crow flew- but I don’t think they had any crows there since I felt like I swam half way to Venezuala.
Anyway.
I learned that as I accumulated fitness and learned from Doug I got faster in the water. As I got faster I could then become more efficient. The base speed and fitness in the water had to come first, and that took a lot of time and training for me.
Got involved in work…
Thanks, everyone, for sharing. I was hoping more slow swimmers on this forum had experience with FF, but that will likely come. The real cost of the program is opportunity - choosing this or that; time is as they say “priceless”. The financial aspect appears to be extremely reasonable.
And thank you, Tom, for providing the reference and some personal perspective. It reminds me of what my Masters coach said when I asked him why I was so slow. His response: “Time. It takes people time to learn to skate, and swimming is much much harder. You just need time.”
Thanks for the reminder.
I am a slow swimmer. I sometimes see snails on the bottom of the pool laughing at me.
I am in week 3 of FF. I will probably do the program all the way through twice.
TI taught me balance. I can swim all day; I’m just too slow.
I had an ah ha moment today in regards to breathing on my weak side. I wasn’t even working on this at all. It just happened.
Honestly for $60, you really can’t go wrong. You will get two coaches to answer all of your questions. You also get a peer group that is experiencing similar things. It was a peer idea and one of Rob’s comments to it that led to my ah-ha which led to more air. Getting air will help in the pursuit of speed.
I would go to VA for some coaching if it were practical. I may have to go the video route. I should probably take some videos of myself this weekend.
$200 on amazon.com and get the Sanyo underwater HD camera (it’s the yellow one). Click on my blog and go to videos and see the under water stuff. It’s great.
Pfff… yet another bunch of people wanting to make $$$ on new triathletes… With all the information available for free online and with the help of great communities like ST it should not be necessary to pay for something like a swim-plan.
Pfff… yet another bunch of people wanting to make $$$ on new triathletes… With all the information available for free online and with the help of great communities like ST it should not be necessary to pay for something like a swim-plan.
From my perspective, It was the best / most impactful $60 bucks I’ve spent on the sport…and I’m not a new triathlete. I’ve been in the sport since the early 90’s.
They could double their price and I’d still make that statement.
I am in week 3 of FF. I will probably do the program all the way through twice.
It is interesting that you think it likely you will do the program twice in only the 3rd week. Have your times improved significantly? I’d be very interested to know how much your times improve over the 12 week program. Perhaps you will post an update? I’m also interested if KathyG will achieve a PR at week 12 since she has not yet.
Honestly for $60, you really can’t go wrong.
It is the opportunity cost more than the dollars. I already swim in a Masters program 4x/week. Realistically, because of young kids and work and cycling and running, I’d need to replace (guessing) probably half of my Masters session with this program for 3 months. Which program is more effective? I don’t know. I was hoping for some good data points from swimmers similar to myself. Rob kindly provided impressive data for swimmers attending their class, but that seems similar to Masters - I’m looking for data on slow swimmers using the online program. KathyG and you think the coaches are great guys (and that’s a very good thing), but neither of you have (yet) realized significant improvements in speed. Not that you two won’t, you just don’t seem to have yet … and so I’m waiting to see if you do.
Thanks for sharing your experience so far. I am very interested if you and KathyG achieve significant speed improvements as you progress through the program.
Pfff… yet another bunch of people wanting to make $$$ on new triathletes… With all the information available for free online and with the help of great communities like ST it should not be necessary to pay for something like a swim-plan.
I don’t begrudge people trying to earn money in a sport they love - there would be a lot less innovation (and noise, true) without. As you noted, we are fortunate to have much free information available. Indeed robertwb also provides advice freely on this forum. So it is not necessary to pay. But if FF provides sufficient value beyond what is freely available, I certainly don’t mind paying. I’m just not sure the program will benefit me more than my Masters program (since it looks like an either/or situation), looking for data points.
Cheers,
Cathy