Vasa erg training

Triathlon Forum
1

So I am very limited to being able to train the swim only early am as I am a school teacher….and the one gym that opens early enough for me to swim (5am) has been continuously broken. Afternoons and evenings are tough due to my kids activities.

So question…do any of you do significant amounts of swim training on the vasa erg (the one with the fan and not just the pulleys)? As for background my swim is my strength. I regularly finish in the top 5 percent in swims. I’m at a point where the longest races I do are sprints and olympic. My swim training when in the water is honestly 3 2000ish yards workouts per week.

Thanks in advance.

2

I posted a lot about it when my kid was small, pool here were nuts busy (pre-COVID) and I used mine a lot. Like over 50% of my swim yards over a long period.

It does have its limitations, but honestly, I’ve never matched the speeds I was back then about 5-6 yrs ago. Granted, I’m aging up, but I’ve been really surprised how much I have NOT improved since I’ve been doing all pool swimming, and a fair amount of it at that (I hit 17-20k/wk most weeks over the winter months).

But honestly, if you’re finishing top 5% on 3 x 2000yds per week, I’d just skip the $$$ of the erg, and just keep doing what you’re doing. Heck, at your ability, swimming 1 x 3000/wk will likely lead you to drop from like top 5% to what, 8%? Which is still really good. (I’m like top 20% in big events, sometimes even top 12-15% in local Olys)

The erg is really only good for arm training - it’s really lacking in the cardio dept, really minimal there. But it does work for the arms/back, particularly if your technique is already there.

3

Hi there, I do have the vasa trainer with just the pulleys and no fan. I am also from a swim background and have done 24 minute 70.3 swims.

I have been doing the vasa trainer seven days a week for 40 minutes nonstop this winter: 2.5min double arm, 2.5min single arms/free; on balance cushions to get body rotation; never do raised arm recovery to protect shoulders.

When I jump in the water, I feel pretty darn good. I personally like saving the cardio for biking and running and I see myself only getting in the water twice a week in the lake this summer and sticking to the vasa the rest of the time because it is so darn time efficient, and again, I would rather pile on the bike and run volume rather than do what I feel is wasted cardio fatigue in the water. I’m working up to an hour of straight Vasa; I don’t take breaks, I just slow down with things start getting tough and wait for the moment to switch to double arm or alternating arms. and crank through audiobooks.

4

I think the vasa ergometer is the best piece of tri training equipment I have. I swim about the same time in races on vasa training as I do when I swim a lot in the pool. Vasa training allows me to bike and run a lot more and be a better triathlete overall because of the time savings from not having to travel to and from the pool at odd hours. Ideally I get to a race site a week before the race and get a lot of actual swim training in that week because I get a tiny bit out of breath when I first get into the water after a long period of vasa only training.

I’ve had a vasa since 2006. Even if I only have 10 minutes, I can get a quick vasa workout in on a busy day. For instance, if I have to work unexpectedly late, I just hop on the vasa for a quick 2 x 250 done in 10 minutes while dinner is cooking and at least it is me getting something done instead of a zero in my training log.

5

I had a vasa for many years. I do suspect you could replace a significant amount of swim training with it, especially if you are a competent swimmer already. I never used mine much because the only thing I hate more than swimming is … the vasa.

6

Since I bought one in 2008, I generally go to the pool like five times a year. I’m not a great swimmer at all, but with the Vasa, I’m a better swimmer than I would be if I have to fit my schedule to the pool. When your ‘pool’ is downstairs, you don’t ever have to meet someone else’s pool schedule.
My pr non-wetsuit swim for 1500 came after not swimming at all for the whole year. If you were only a swimmer, I would say it could augment but not replace all your swimming. As a triathlete, especially where the water is cold and you will never have to forgo the wetsuit, you can replace all your swimming.
Along with a PM it might be the most useful tech I have.
Swimming is painfully boring anyway, so the Vasa is no worse. Plus, there are no walls, so you just keep on ‘swimming’ like you do in open water.
I love being able to dress for running, walk to the basement, so my swim workout and then run out the door with like two minutes of transition time. No chlorine. Do dry skin, so water draining out of my nose half the day.

As an already good swimmer, I’ll be you could do more than half or more of your training on Vasa unless you go non-wetsuit a lot and need to practice kicking for balance.

p.s. Would agree with above post-ers, the aerobic component it not there. It creates muscular endurance for the targeted muscle groups. I do think that I am actually more balanced right/left with the Vasa than I am if I do regular swimming.

7

Do you think there’s a cardio benefit to it? Or just strength specific workout?

I do like the idea that it’ll save a lot of time for more run/bike engine work.

8

I moved to Korea last year and have very limited access to pools. I bought a Vasa to have as a substitute for swimming as I heard some people liked it. I was a 27-28min 70.3 swimmer before moving to Korea with 3-4 swims per week, and I swam the exact same times in three races last year doing only Vasa training. I have no plans to ever return to 3-4 long swims when I move back to the states and will stick with the vasa moving forward. I will be testing the Vasa training in a full Ironman race in June.

9

Do you think there’s a cardio benefit to it? Or just strength specific workout?

I do like the idea that it’ll save a lot of time for more run/bike engine work.

The erg has different resistance settings, so it depends on how you set it and how strong you are. If you can handle the easiest setting at a fast turnover, then you’ll get a little cardio out of it.

If you turn it up, the resistance jumps a lot, at least for me. I might do max setting 3 out of 7.

10

I usually swim sub-24 for 70.3.
I will be at a remote cabin all summer. I will be heavily reliant on the Vasa this summer.

There are 3 problems that I foresee:

  1. The vasa will not help build good swim fitness.

  2. My vasa doesn’t have any kick attachments. (They look stupid anyway.)

  3. Vasa training uses swim muscles, but the resistance and acceleration are off.

I think one can replace one or two swim workouts per week with the Vasa.
I am going to try to get 2 pool swims per week. I will focus more on speed, fitness and kick during the few pool workouts I will do.

11

There is some cardio benefit to the vasa but not as much as in the pool. I would say my heart rate is probably 90-110 on vasa versus probably 120-130 in pool or open water. If I go hard on the vasa I can get my heart rate up and can get it as hard or harder on my upper body muscles as sprinting in the pool does if that makes sense.

12

  1. The vasa will not help build good swim fitness.
    n=1 but I’d say it is ok for preserving fitness, or even building if you’re lacking it to begin with.

  2. My vasa doesn’t have any kick attachments. (They look stupid anyway.)
    I never saw the point

  3. Vasa training uses swim muscles, but the resistance and acceleration are off.
    I don’t think anyone would claim it’s good for your timing or water feel, body roll, any of those things.

13

I usually swim sub-24 for 70.3.
I will be at a remote cabin all summer. I will be heavily reliant on the Vasa this summer.

There are 3 problems that I foresee:

  1. The vasa will not help build good swim fitness.

  2. My vasa doesn’t have any kick attachments. (They look stupid anyway.)

  3. Vasa training uses swim muscles, but the resistance and acceleration are off.

I think one can replace one or two swim workouts per week with the Vasa.
I am going to try to get 2 pool swims per week. I will focus more on speed, fitness and kick during the few pool workouts I will do.

I’ll predict that even though the erg could work for you, you’ll just end up not using it if it’s not super-troublesome to hit the pool 2x/wk.

The main limiter is that you will probably find the erg ming-numbingly boring compared to pool swimming, especially as a good swimmer, so much so you won’t want to do it more than a few times. I have to rely on either workout videos, or podcasts, or other media to keep going on a regular basis, or else I just don’t want to do it anymore. (I suspect it’s still better than an endless pool, though!)

In your case, your technique is clearly already well developed, so even though the erg might be slightly different, it won’t adversely affect it.

The erg is more problematic for beginners with real stroke errors and body balance issues in the water, since obviously the erg won’t solve those water issues. It’s also really hard to do a proper catch-up style stroke on the erg, but if you can already do it properly in the water, it doesn’t adversely affect it.

I’ve used the erg a ton in the past, but now that my kid is a teenager and I’m not as desperately time-constrained, I really look forward to my pool sessions (partly because there are other people there!) and haven’t used my erg much as a result in the past 2 years. I sadly didn’t get any great speed bump from moving to all pool swimming, and in fact, I’m in the process of transitioning back to swim+erg to ease some of the scheduling issues.

14

If you can’t swim that much and the swim is your strength, you’d be better off going to the gym with a really solid S&C program which will also benefit your bike and run.

Tim

15

Problem:
4) Boring - my thought is that since the Vasa is convenient, and since it is more like hybrid strength/aerobic machine anyway… why not do lots of small sessions (i.e. 5 × 20 minutes)?

16

Problem:
4) Boring - my thought is that since the Vasa is convenient, and since it is more like hybrid strength/aerobic machine anyway… why not do lots of small sessions (i.e. 5 × 20 minutes)?

Ok - it’s either:

Boring, if you’re going super hard

Painful - if you’re going hard!

Take your pick!

I have no problem killing myself on pool intervals regularly - they’re fun for me. But erg intervals, are painful and NOT fun.

But yes, I honestly would absolutely be a better swimmer if I did like 5 extra sessions of 20-30 mins of erg intervals, and I’ve got no excuse for not doing it. Then again, most people would find it hard to even do 5 extra run sessions of 20 mins, so there’s that. In fact, this conversation is motivating me to try and add some erg to my life again (I’m recovering from a rib injury now so can’t use my erg, but in <2 weeks, I’m going to be back at it)

17

If you can’t swim that much and the swim is your strength, you’d be better off going to the gym with a really solid S&C program which will also benefit your bike and run.

Tim

Is it that you see no value to Vasa erg training for swimming, or that you see relatively more value in gym-based strength and conditioning that works on training the body for all three sports?

18

It’s both.

Tim

19

Caveat / background: I am a 29 - 30 min 70.3 swimmer here.

Historically, I have done 99% of all my swim training on the Vasa. A couple of swims before the race is all what I did. Incredibly time efficient.

I am (was…) going to the pool more often and noticed the Vasa doesn’t help me with:

  1. Hypoxic out of breath
  2. Shoulder strength / soreness, ironically during the recovery phase

Going to the pool, I can say that it is 1. def less time efficient 2. Much more tiring.

I think, if you are a good swimmer, 1 or 2x / week swimming and Vasa is a good way to play it.

Speaking of which, going to skip my 830pm pool session for an EZ 30 min vasa tonight.

Hope this helps

20

Do you use trainer road for workouts or just make your own?