Hi All,
I’m considering making the investment into a Retul system and just wondering what others’ experience have been like using the system. It’s not a cheap investment as many of you know.
I am currently using an Exit Fit bike with Kinovea and am happy with the results. The main value I see in Retul is quantifying otherwise difficult things like knee tracking.
I don’t necessarily buy into their fit philosophy on some things based on the demo videos I’ve seen, so I’m not sure I would find it useful in determining the general position all that much but more for just fine tuning and specialty problems.
Other than the basics that are shown in the demo videos, what are some other features in Retul that you have found helpful?
I don’t see any value in the frame finder but the Zinn seems pretty cool.
-As a tool, the Retul should help you with your current protocol, regardless of basis.
-The angles you measure will be more accurate than with Kinovea as you won’t have to worry about camera orientation.
-By collecting all body side data at once, it is easy to see how any single change effects the whole rider.
-Easy viewing of data over different intensities. You can identify how/where a rider sits on the bike based on intensity.
-Quantify asymmetry.
-Coach pedaling technique
-Retul does a great job marketing. I get a lot of riders who find me on the Retul website.
I had a retul fit in Manhattan with a very well known fitter. It was very expensive. I told him I had very tight hamstrings. After the two hour professional fit he went ahead and raised my seat post by 3cm. I had tremendous hamstring pain after that and couldn’t ride for weeks. Based on this experience and the experience I had with two other “professional” fitters I do not recommend anyone to get a bike fit. Do changes yourself, record your results, and see how you feel.
Most bike fitters go to a training that last 5 days and cost around 3,000 dollars and they can call themselves professional bike fitters. Don’t you think someone needs more education and training to call themselves that?
Just wanted to also follow this up by saying that I purchased the system and attended Retul U and I couldn’t be happier with the purchase.
I find new uses for it with each client.
The Retül is a very very good tool. It’s very interesting and useful for fitting and for me it’s the best tool for that, but … it’s a tool and if the fitter is bad … the fit will be bad ;-).
Retul is a tool. A good bike fit comes from a good bike fitter. The most important tool is knowledge. A good fitter can use Retul and take advantage of it. A poor fitter even with Retul is still a poor fitter.
The less you know about bike fitting the more you rely on tools. The more you know about bike fitting the less you rely on tools and the more you rely on experience.
A couple of lasers can show you a lot more than Retul in some aspect but cost 1/60th of a Retul. A Retul can show some things not seen with a laser. Both miss many aspects that only a trained eye can see. The cost of a trained eye however is priceless.
My suggestion is invest in learning bike fitting first. Knowledge will be your number one tool and then you can decide what bells and whistles you may want. Ask a few Retul fitters why they also have two lasers.
If you are a FIST fan think about who teaches at FIST. Ask Dan why he invites them to teach at his school.
All the best if you get a Retul I hope you are able to take advantage of it. If not it is one very expensive measuring tape.
Anyone using the Frame Finder option? I would like to know how this tool is being utilized. I am considering Retul for my fit studio however still doing much research.
Britt - The choice to bring Retul into your studio and using Frame Finder are two different but exclusive things. For me and my business Retul has been an invaluable tool. The ability to quantify a fit and have immediate results is better than any other tool out there. No offense to Paul, but it is much more than a fancy measuring tape. I don’t want to stir the pot as that is not the question but It is only as good as the fitter using it, as with any tool.
Frame Finder for me has not been very useful (I have a private fit studio). I am much happier with stack and reach data-bases and the Exit-cycle app. For me it was mostly a matter of time. The frame Finder works perfectly, but the time it takes to derive the initial then to overlay that into the huge amount of choices was just too much work. I am still hopeful that it will be simpler and quicker in later generations, what I was hoping it would do which it still doesn’t seem too. Is take the coordinates I feed it and find the best match. That is what the Exit-cycle app does for tri bikes at least.
Thanks Phillip for the feedback. I tried finding the Exit Cycle app in the Apple App Store and could not find it. Is there a different app you are referring to?
That’s unfortunate that you had a negative experience with a professional fitting service, I pride myself on my continual education and experience with every client I fit. I have a B. Kin background, personal training experience, I race myself and I believe in the benefit of a good fit having a major back injury myself.
Most fitters go to a 3-5 day training course but there is much more to it than that or you won’t be fitting clients for long. Professional fitters use it as a business, any professional service has a level of expectation and results.
I know monkeyin’ around for many rides with different seat heights, stem angles has no benefit without knowing the body mechanics and the background of the individual. You could spend hours, days or even years to improve riding position for what a professional fitter can accomplish in a few hours. Then again, being able to maximize power, aerodynamics, cadence and overall comfort is what a fitter does, efficiency at it’s finest.
If you use it with a fit bike its great. If you want to collect your angles accurately in a timely manner it works great. Gives you all kinds of data that is useful if the client has a certain issue, ankle, knee, elbow shoulder etc. If the angle is out of the “normal” Retul angle it might be a direction for a fix. However if you plan to use it to measure bike frames for accurate stack and reach it isn’t very consistent, (tracing the head tube circumference, to find it’s center for reach) . I spent hours measuring the same frame over two days and never came up with the same reach measurement as the actual physical measurement. The measurements were off by 6mm to 2.5 cm. Simple point to point measurements are very close. Saddle height. Saddle nose to center handlebar. Get your stack and reach off the fit bike.
The Retul is really a fantastic system and enhanced by the latest software update. The software allows real-time tracking of changes so that the athlete can make changes to say pedaling, and these are immediately updated on the live feed. I have used the system for over 3 years and I must agree that experience counts for a lot but the ability to have immediate angle feedback really helps. Combining Retul with say a Computrainer is also a very good idea, as is the measurement of HR, power, subjective comfort and always making only small adjustments. I always offered a free return consultation (30 minutes) to review changes and see if there were any issues. The Retul quickly showed up biomechanical changes and further tweeks could quickly be uploaded with the Zin.
The Frame Finder is really useful for clients who want to buy a new frame as the software over-lays the measurements of the current bike over that of the proposed new bike. It is possible to change bars, saddles, headset spacers etc. and see what effect these have on the new bike.
I am no longer in the cycling/fitting world due to a car accident otherwise I would still be out there using my dusty, carefully stored, Retul system. I actually used it with a friend last week who wanted to buy a new bike. We Zinned the bike, added a few virtual spacers under the stem then looked at bikes. We were able to go through quite a few options before selecting a Felt Z3, which was a perfect fit. I wish I could use the Retul system and Computrainer more often but it is not possible as I really enjoyed the fitting methodology and experience…
So, combine experience with state of the art technology (that keeps evolving) and some tried and tested systems, such as Computrainer SpinScan and you will be on your way