Edit: I realized my title is poorly worded. Effort needed to maintain power suddenly increases.
I thought I’d post this since I’m about to get back to using my trainer a lot more and see if anyone else has experienced this sensation. My trainer had been leaking, so I got a new fly wheel. Ever since I got that I’ve experienced this. It always seems to be about 30-40 minutes into a trainer session, it very suddenly feels sluggish and seems much more difficult to maintain power levels that I had no trouble holding early in the the ride. For instance, I remember some rides that would have my power up over 300 early on, and I was holding it steadily without much trouble. Fast forward to 45 minutes later, and I couldn’t even reach 280 no matter how hard I tried. Every time I would really notice when the sluggishness began.
I realize this could simply be fatigue, but I don’t think fatigue would hit so suddenly. And the fact that I could hold a power level steady early, that I couldn’t even touch for a second or two 45 minutes later really seems to me that there’s something else going on.
This is not a one time thing, I experience this every time I’ve used it since I got the new fly wheel. Any ideas?
what is your power measurement device? I am guessing virtual power. if so…
once the fluid warms up in the fluid 2, it generates more resistance at same wheel speed. I had one fluid 2 that would take 30-40min to get there, but the other 2(including current one) take 3-8min depending on ho w hard I start a session.
if not…
check your PM, or you went harder than you should have to start
In resume, there are so many factors that will influence your power (trainer tension, pressure in tire, time ridden, room temperature, temperature of trainer) that I wouldn’t be surprised two similar rides might feel completely different, effort wise.
yes, I am using virtual power. That seems odd that warmer fluid would provide more resistance, it seems that cooler would be more resistant. That being the case, are you still getting an accurate training session? the FTP test takes place before the resistance really gets there, so you’d wind up with a fairly high FTP, one that you couldn’t possibly maintain at the the end of rides.
Regarding the second comment, I wonder that too, I try to stay right on the power mark, but often times it feels so easy in the beginning I don’t feel like I’m pushing too hard, and I"ll go 20-30 watts over the target, but it still doesn’t feel hard. But even if i were fatigued, I don’t think the resistance difficulty would hit so suddenly. Especially to the point that the levels I was holding early, would be literally impossible to hit later. You’d think no matter what I’d at least be able to reach those same power numbers, even for a second or two.
That was an interesting read. Made me wonder one thing…I was mainly noticing these issues in the winter, and I keep my bike in the basement, and a very poorly heated part of the house, so it’s typically 20 degrees colder in that room than the rest of the house. I’d always have to start out wearing a jacket before I got warmed up.
I hadn’t considered outside temperature before. I really noticed this during the Tour of sufferlandria in january, and it was probably 50 degrees in that room. And if like the other poster mentioned, colder fluid has less resistance, there could be a substantial increase in resistance once it gets up to the proper temperatures.
So, all that being the case. How do I do a proper FTP test? I’ll shoot an email to the TR guys and see if they have any ideas.
Yes, a common complaint of mine about my Cyclops trainer. I have a power meter and I can literally watch the power go up when that surge comes on after the trainer “warms up”. I’ve confirmed it in my data afterwards, where I can see that cadence and wheel speed remain constant, but the power starts climbing up and up. At 400 watts plus, the rate of increase become very bad.
I also have a Kurt Kinetic, which is a little less quiet but stays steady the entire time and is a little more consistent ride to ride.
I have to train at 5 am, so for me quietness is a factor to not wake the kids.
Yes, a common complaint of mine about my Cyclops trainer. I have a power meter and I can literally watch the power go up when that surge comes on after the trainer “warms up”. I’ve confirmed it in my data afterwards, where I can see that cadence and wheel speed remain constant, but the power starts climbing up and up. At 400 watts plus, the rate of increase become very bad.
I also have a Kurt Kinetic, which is a little less quiet but stays steady the entire time and is a little more consistent ride to ride.
I have to train at 5 am, so for me quietness is a factor to not wake the kids.
Where i train is far enough away from my little one so waking him up isn’t an issue, and the cyclops is quiet enough anyway. But how to deal with that power surge is still confusing for me. Maybe I should move my trainer to one of the other rooms that stays warmer, so I’ll have a more uniform ride.
I couldn’t afford to buy a new trainer when mine works fine.
I’ve noticed that resistance changes quite a bit with the fluid2 when I got my first powermeter a month or so ago. For what it’s worth, I used the virtual power on Trainerroad without much of an issue beforehand, and did make decent gains last winter. It’s just an issue to be cognizant of in my opinion.
Yes, a common complaint of mine about my Cyclops trainer. I have a power meter and I can literally watch the power go up when that surge comes on after the trainer “warms up”. I’ve confirmed it in my data afterwards, where I can see that cadence and wheel speed remain constant, but the power starts climbing up and up. At 400 watts plus, the rate of increase become very bad.
I also have a Kurt Kinetic, which is a little less quiet but stays steady the entire time and is a little more consistent ride to ride.
I have to train at 5 am, so for me quietness is a factor to not wake the kids.
If you are using your power meter for training, what does it matter if the trainer’s resistance starts to increase after a certain amount of time?
The only difference it makes to you is that your wheel speed would slow down when the resistance increases but since you are training with your power meter, the speed is irrelevant anyway.
I noticed my Fluid 2 did that when the bearings were starting to go out and just before the fluid decided it wanted to reside on the floor instead of in its case.
I have a power meter, so I still use the CycleOps trainer because it’s quieter than the Kurt Kinetic I have. I think it’s a pain in the ass to have it inconsistent in the first 1/2 hour, but it also gets worse during intervals. I’ll be in the “right” gear at the start of an interval and the unit will keep ramping up resistance to the point where my cadence slows down more and more to keep the same wattage. I can shift a gear down, but then that jump is too much (1 tooth) so I’ll be spinning too ineffectively and cant keep the same wattage. The power curve at the higher wattages is very drastic and is made worse by the resistance creep.
I do as I don’t use virtual power, I use a quarq. rpms are higher at start and decrease as time goes on to a point. I did not care for the one I had that took 40 min to “warm up” thankfully it was noisy as hell so they replaced it within a week of my getting it as a replacement for the 4 yo one that leaked.
you will not have an ftp that you can use for anything in virtual power if you don’t wait until it levels out
Yes, a common complaint of mine about my Cyclops trainer. I have a power meter and I can literally watch the power go up when that surge comes on after the trainer “warms up”. I’ve confirmed it in my data afterwards, where I can see that cadence and wheel speed remain constant, but the power starts climbing up and up. At 400 watts plus, the rate of increase become very bad.
.
I thought i was crazy and just hitting some sort of limit, but really it can almost be like a light switch sometimes. I didn’t realize how bad the fluid 2 was until I got a real powermeter and like you could see at a certain point the wheel speed remains the same and power just starts creeping up and up and up.
GF wants to maybe do a half next year so figured good excuse for me to buy a kurt and let her use the fluid since she won’t be putting the time or power into it for there to be a problem.
I’ve found on mine that if pushing 280-300 watts the unit will stabilize within first 10min, max, and then there is no sudden jumps after that even in intervals. of course if your ftp does not allow that then longer time frame to get there and possible to have jumps when doing intervals(I think)
Also a Fluid 2…same issue as everyone else…when it gets hot the resistance increases exponentially. At first I thought it was just me getting tired and unable to hold the same amount of watts.
For my last two workouts I’ve directed my fan at the cycleops unit instead of onto myself to try and keep it cool…definitely seems to have helped. I use virtual power with TR so this seems to be my best fix.
As people have mentioned, the resistance increases as the unit warms up. Here is some data to back this up from a light spin on a Fluid 2, not long ago:
Power (via PowerTap) over first 30 mins. Notice how power actually increases very slightly over the first 20 mins
Now here is estimated speed. Virtual power is just a function of speed, so this is essentially a proxy for virtual power levels. As you can see, virtual power is dropping significantly at a fixed (even slightly increasing) actual power (see above).
Therefore, as the unit warms up, you are having to put in progressively more actual power to maintain a given level of virtual power. This is why your workouts are appearing more difficult as time progresses.
Same problem with my Fluid 2. Usually takes a good 20-30 mins to warm up.
Would putting the Fluid 2 in front of the heating vent (once winter rolls around) keep it warm enough that this wouldn’t happen? Has anyone tried that? I use a room that’s not heated during the trainer months, so it would be kind of a pain the arse to have to set it up 4 times a week, but think it might be worth it…
Edit: I realized my title is poorly worded. Effort needed to maintain power suddenly increases.
I thought I’d post this since I’m about to get back to using my trainer a lot more and see if anyone else has experienced this sensation. My trainer had been leaking, so I got a new fly wheel. Ever since I got that I’ve experienced this. It always seems to be about 30-40 minutes into a trainer session, it very suddenly feels sluggish and seems much more difficult to maintain power levels that I had no trouble holding early in the the ride. For instance, I remember some rides that would have my power up over 300 early on, and I was holding it steadily without much trouble. Fast forward to 45 minutes later, and I couldn’t even reach 280 no matter how hard I tried. Every time I would really notice when the sluggishness began.
I realize this could simply be fatigue, but I don’t think fatigue would hit so suddenly. And the fact that I could hold a power level steady early, that I couldn’t even touch for a second or two 45 minutes later really seems to me that there’s something else going on.
This is not a one time thing, I experience this every time I’ve used it since I got the new fly wheel. Any ideas?
And THIS^ is why I bought the Super Mag Pro- dead quiet, smooth heavy flywheel and NO warm up or resistance changes. I will never go back to a fluid trainer.
