Maybe racers and RDs will stop drafting at a cost. http://www.npr.org/…-slow-down-at-a-cost
“psychological studies have suggested that people are vigilant about small, accumulating losses”
Could a reward/penalty system curb drafting? Here are some possibilities, feel free to answer, and or add possibilities.
UNOFFICIAL IRONMAN DRAFTING POLL:
If I could, I would get a refund of $_____ to penalize Ironman for an inadequately marshalled race.
Ironman should be penalized $__________ per race for not enforcing drafting.
If I could, I would penalize drafters $______ per occurrence.
A cool gift for racers who finish with no drafting penalties would be ________ (number)____ penalties = no shirt or finisher medal, and drafting penalties called out at finish line. (number)__ drafting penalties = DQ (number)___ drafting penalties = Kona and 70.3 Championship ineligible.
Penalties should lower AWA score ________ points.
I would pay $______ more for an Ironman race actually free from drafting.
Every drafting penalty incurs ___________ distance extra running.
My answers:
If I could, I would get a refund of $300 when Ironman doesn’t enforce drafting rules.
Ironman should be penalized $75,000 per race for not enforcing drafting rules.
If I could, I would penalize drafters $50 per occurrence.
Time penalty for drafting 3 minutes_
A cool gift for racers who finish with no drafting penalties would be free race pictures 2____ penalties = no shirt or finisher medal and drafting penalties called out at finish line. 3 drafting penalties = DQ 1 drafting penalties = Kona and 70.3 Championship ineligible.
Every drafting penalty incurs 1km extra running.
Penalties should lower AWA score 500 points each.
I would pay $150 more for an Ironman race actually free from drafting.
Have some fun with this, maybe five lifetime drafting penalties earns an IM tattoo
Maybe there’s an incremental way a portion of registration fees are set aside that go to Ironman/The WTC based on how little drafting there is.
preferably on a short loop at the start of the run, where lots of spectators and other competitors can see it. Or maybe 400m on gravel before T2 - choice of barefoot or cycling shoes
I will pay the exact same registration fee as everyone else. Change the rules to allow drafting. People on ST can STFU and we can all get on with our lives.
Some people enjoy building things and solving puzzles. You don’t have to be part of it, or listen to them, but your willingness to post is the opposite of STFU.
If I could, I would penalize drafters $50 per occurrence.
I wonder if you have read the book “freakonomics”. There is an example in that book of a children’s after school group, they look after kids while the parents are still at work. They had a problem with parents showing up late to collect their kids at the end of the day. To try to reduce the problem, the school started fining lateness, $3 for being late by over 10 mins (or something). It massively backfired, because the parents were completely happy to pay the $3 to legitimise arriving late. The result was that more of them were late, by longer, and fewer of them were sorry about it.
Think about a financial penalty for drafting. The cost-benefit of paying the fine means that some would happily pay the fine and - having legitimised/excused their behaviour by paying for it - wheel suck the whole way round. This would be a “pay to win” situation. Triathlon is certainly not free of it, but making it that explicit would suck. Time penalties and DQs are the only realistic way to penalise.
It gets repetitive, everyone has the same discussion in the days immediately following a large race. Then everyone comes out with their solutions, which, except for severely limiting the number of athletes allowed to participate; either won’t work or don’t have a prayer of being implemented. This isn’t really a puzzle; the more athletes there are on a road course the more drafting will happen - even if you don’t want too it is nearly impossible not to get a draft benefit if you are an age-grouper at large race. We aren’t going to fine the WTC, WTC isn’t going to do some sliding scale for draft penalties, they will never have nearly enough officials to be effectively enforced, they aren’t going to ban people because they drafted, they may stagger the start more aggressively but there are only so many hours in a day and permitting rules could flat out prevent the bike portion from going too long in the day. Instead of continuously pounding the round peg into the square block, change your peg.
So your whole response is that WTC likely wont implement any of the “solutions” yet your solution is to go draft legal? Yeah that’s going to happen with WTC. Probaly better solution like the other guy said earlier: some do the dirty deed, others ride clean, but everyone will still move on to the next race.
preferably on a short loop at the start of the run, where lots of spectators and other competitors can see it
WTC has done this, at Antwerp in 2009. They had a lane around transition, you racked your bike, got your shoes on and ran to the bike entrance for T2. There you got in a fenced off loop that ran around transition area for your penalty loop. The announcer did mention to spectators that the person was running their drafting penalty.
probably added 200-300m to the run. reminded me of the biathlon penalty loop when you miss a shot.
Yes, but draft legal is a proven solution to the problem of people breaking draft rules. Look at other things that are banned but everyone does it anyway (like marijuana) and the enforcement mechanism to truly stop it is either not available or no feasible - a logical solution is to stop banning it. I am not commenting on the validity of non-drafting triathlons. I am commenting on the the paradigm of a ~2500 person race with everyone starting the swim at a similar time equates to a bike course where drafting will be frequent and practically unavoidable.
If you receive a drafting penalty you should be required to race USAT sanctioned races with a small parachute attached to your seat tube that saps 20 watts for the rest of the calendar year
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I’m not at all a fan of drafting, but I’d be ok with it as long as we get rid of aero bars and disc wheels…just to at least try to add a few bits of safety precautions…
I’m not at all a fan of drafting, but I’d be ok with it as long as we get rid of aero bars and disc wheels…just to at least try to add a few bits of safety precautions…
Triathlons that are draft legal (like the one in the Olympics) generally adopt UCI rules for mass-starts events. That means more standard road bikes for the bike leg.
Yup, I was aware of it; I’ve subscribed to the ITU series for the last 3 years and enjoy it very much. I just wanted to throw it out into the open part of the discussion to clarify.
I don’t want to be in a peleton with 100 other triathletes all riding inches off of the wheel in front of them.
Why not? Bike races (and, indeed, many triathlons) are contested exactly this way.
That’s why many of us left bike racing. Way too many crashes due to other people’s mistakes. Very happy that draft legal hasn’t caught on. Hope it never does.
The only draft legal I’d consider is something like the Rush race from Rev3. Small packs, relatively short time on the bike and closed courses to minimize risk.
I can just imagine the size of the pack at Kona if drafting were legal! Wonder if they could catch the pros?
If I could, I would penalize drafters $50 per occurrence.
I wonder if you have read the book “freakonomics”. There is an example in that book of a children’s after school group, they look after kids while the parents are still at work. They had a problem with parents showing up late to collect their kids at the end of the day. To try to reduce the problem, the school started fining lateness, $3 for being late by over 10 mins (or something). It massively backfired, because the parents were completely happy to pay the $3 to legitimise arriving late. The result was that more of them were late, by longer, and fewer of them were sorry about it.
Think about a financial penalty for drafting. The cost-benefit of paying the fine means that some would happily pay the fine and - having legitimised/excused their behaviour by paying for it - wheel suck the whole way round. This would be a “pay to win” situation. Triathlon is certainly not free of it, but making it that explicit would suck. Time penalties and DQs are the only realistic way to penalise.
Ha! That might be the case with drafting too. A financial penalty alone might not end drafting. I was considering the idea that people are attentive to trickling penalties, so the more costs/penalties we could scale to drafting, the less it would occur. I was suggesting everything on the list, not just one thing.
Among my friends and family, drafting is driving us away from Ironman and triathlon. It’s impossible to keep any illusions about Kona, 70.3 WC and many IMs because the power to drag numbers just don’t add up. Too many drafters pretending they have skills, that they don’t have, with no understanding of physics - it’s kind of sociopathic. Even as a personal test, why select races with defects, whether it’s polluted water, dangerous roads, or draft packs. Beautiful venues bloomed, then decayed under the weight of drafting.
1 drafting penalties = Kona and 70.3 Championship ineligible.
That would be a good rule. Easily understood, easily enforced and would put the onus on the competitor to race within the spirit of the rules.
Refunds and penalties to WTC are not going to happen - they collect the money…
No appeals unless the athlete can prove with video and an interferometer that they were clean.
