In the wake of the recent ruling by the Alabama Supreme Court that said all embryos are considered children, the University said, “We must evaluate the potential that our patients and our physicians could be prosecuted criminally or face punitive damages for following the standard of care for IVF treatments.â€
Alabama has gone full theocracy.
In his concurring opinion, Chief Justice Tom Parker quoted Genesis, Jeremiah, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas and John Calvin, among other Christian thinkers in his ruling. For context, he has also resisted the state’s implementation of the Supreme Court’s ruling on same-sex marriage.
In his ruling, as well as quoting the Bible, he describes embryos that have only a few hundred cells as “little people.â€
He therefore appears to be ignoring the First Amendment, which says, the government (which includes state governments) “shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.â€
There’s much else wrong with the court’s ruling, but the impact is already being felt by the suspension of fertility clinics’ activities. And what’s next? Banning IVF clinics altogether? Banning birth control? Morning after pills?
Welcome to 21st century America. “The land of the free.â€
In the wake of the recent ruling by the Alabama Supreme Court that said all embryos are considered children, the University said, “We must evaluate the potential that our patients and our physicians could be prosecuted criminally or face punitive damages for following the standard of care for IVF treatments.â€
Alabama has gone full theocracy.
In his concurring opinion, Chief Justice Tom Parker quoted Genesis, Jeremiah, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas and John Calvin, among other Christian thinkers in his ruling. For context, he has also resisted the state’s implementation of the Supreme Court’s ruling on same-sex marriage.
In his ruling, as well as quoting the Bible, he describes embryos that have only a few hundred cells as “little people.â€
He therefore appears to be ignoring the First Amendment, which says, the government (which includes state governments) “shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.â€
There’s much else wrong with the court’s ruling, but the impact is already being felt by the suspension of fertility clinics’ activities. And what’s next? Banning IVF clinics altogether? Banning birth control? Morning after pills?
Welcome to 21st century America. “The land of the free.â€
(Sourced from Ruth Marcus, WaPo, and Bloomberg)
I don’t know about the other stuff but relying on John Calvin is kooky talk. That guy came up with some heretical theology in his day.
Does it follow that, say, an undocumented immigrant who got pregnant in the US cannot be deported since the child is a US citizen?
Nope. Citizenship is given at the birth of the child. So AL can say they are children, but not citizens until born.
When does child support start?
I would guess at conception, but the financial needs of the child aren’t significant. but costs of pregnancy should be covered.
Can a woman purchase life insurance on their pre-born child, and collect if she miscarries?
That would be up to the insurance providers, so no.
But it does sound like IVF and any form of birth control that works post conception is now illegal. Maybe some issues if you are caught having a beer or strong coffee the day before a miscarriage.
I guess a workaround for right now would be to extract all the eggs but only fertilize 1-2 at a time and just freeze the remainder. Adding expense and delay and an already emotional process. You can’t just stop without harvesting the eggs mid-cycle, sounds like that would be horrific. Imagine instead of a woman passing one egg, she would have several.
And women already waiting to see if the embryo took aren’t really affected by this, but their frozen embryos sure could be. I’d be looking to ship those out of state stat.
As someone who has gone through the process many times, this whole ruling is upsetting. I get the clinic screwed up and how upsetting this was to the would be parents - but no, not a child. At absolute most the clinics are freezing a 5-6 day blastocyst, (imagine a circle of cells about the size of a pen tip). They have zero chance of survival unless implanted, and even then the stats aren’t that great to get a positive pregnancy.
In the wake of the recent ruling by the Alabama Supreme Court that said all embryos are considered children,
Didn’t he use the term “extra-uterine children?”
Does it follow that, say, an undocumented immigrant who got pregnant in the US cannot be deported since the child is a US citizen?
When does child support start?
Can a woman purchase life insurance on their pre-born child, and collect if she miscarries?
So many questions…
Can I claim the unborn as a dependent on taxes?
Can I drive in HOV-2+ legally?
I remember a story about a pregnant woman in Texas that ticketed for driving in an HOV lane, it think it was 2021 or 2022. She appealed the ticket on the grounds that her unborn baby was a person in the eyes of the state. The judge agreed and the ticket was dismissed.
Does it follow that, say, an undocumented immigrant who got pregnant in the US cannot be deported since the child is a US citizen?
Nope. Citizenship is given at the birth of the child. So AL can say they are children, but not citizens until born.
This makes sense, until you have to explain how someone was born before their birthdate.
Because to be alive, then you need to have been born. So how do you define birthdate? Is there a nonsensical definition of birthdate?
Does it follow that, say, an undocumented immigrant who got pregnant in the US cannot be deported since the child is a US citizen?
Nope. Citizenship is given at the birth of the child. So AL can say they are children, but not citizens until born.
This makes sense, until you have to explain how someone was born before their birthdate.
Because to be alive, then you need to have been born. So how do you define birthdate? Is there a nonsensical definition of birthdate?
On my mind since I just did them, but can you claim your unborn children on your taxes?
Does it follow that, say, an undocumented immigrant who got pregnant in the US cannot be deported since the child is a US citizen?
Nope. Citizenship is given at the birth of the child. So AL can say they are children, but not citizens until born.
This makes sense, until you have to explain how someone was born before their birthdate.
Because to be alive, then you need to have been born. So how do you define birthdate? Is there a nonsensical definition of birthdate?
Not to quibble over a stupid ruling, but are you claiming that a fetus isn’t alive because it hasn’t been born?
This seems like a case where the plaintiffs in advancing this argument in order to win ended up screwing themselves. That is, if they truly were there because they wanted a baby through IVF.
Now they may have lost that option for infertility, at least in Alabama.
And while they can now pursue a wrongful death claim, wouldn’t their potential damages be impacted by the fact that they understood going into the process that most of their fertilized eggs would end up being destroyed. Can you really cry over the loss of an extra-utero embryo when you knew when creating that embryo that it likely would be destroyed or lost anyway? I can have some sympathy for the plaintiffs in that their hopes may have been dashed by negligence. But in raising the wrongful death claim, they seem to be hypocrites. And they may have ruined this for others in Alabama.
Does it follow that, say, an undocumented immigrant who got pregnant in the US cannot be deported since the child is a US citizen?
Nope. Citizenship is given at the birth of the child. So AL can say they are children, but not citizens until born.
This makes sense, until you have to explain how someone was born before their birthdate.
Because to be alive, then you need to have been born. So how do you define birthdate? Is there a nonsensical definition of birthdate?
Not to quibble over a stupid ruling, but are you claiming that a fetus isn’t alive because it hasn’t been born?
I am asking how you can be alive before you are born.
Does it follow that, say, an undocumented immigrant who got pregnant in the US cannot be deported since the child is a US citizen?
Nope. Citizenship is given at the birth of the child. So AL can say they are children, but not citizens until born.
This makes sense, until you have to explain how someone was born before their birthdate.
Because to be alive, then you need to have been born. So how do you define birthdate? Is there a nonsensical definition of birthdate?
Not to quibble over a stupid ruling, but are you claiming that a fetus isn’t alive because it hasn’t been born?
I am asking how you can be alive before you are born.
How would you define being born?
Born requires someone to have been born, to have gone through birth. Alabama law, however, defines life has beginning at conception. Under the Alabama court decision, having been born is not relevant. Having been conceived is.
“Born” only came up in response to the citizenship question. One that isn’t governed by Alabama law. With regard to citizenship, the Fourteenth Amendment states that “ll persons **born **or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” So even though an embryo may be considered a person under Alabama law, that person is not a citizen of the United States until they are born.
Does it follow that, say, an undocumented immigrant who got pregnant in the US cannot be deported since the child is a US citizen?
Nope. Citizenship is given at the birth of the child. So AL can say they are children, but not citizens until born.
This makes sense, until you have to explain how someone was born before their birthdate.
Because to be alive, then you need to have been born. So how do you define birthdate? Is there a nonsensical definition of birthdate?
Not to quibble over a stupid ruling, but are you claiming that a fetus isn’t alive because it hasn’t been born?
Don’t forget semen, it’s alive too. Each little swimmer is at the very least half a baby.
That makes you and every man alive essentially a mass murderer, responsible for millions upon millions of dead babies.