Today I did a ride that took 2800kj to complete, which was 68.5 miles in the mountains. I consumed about 200 calories in fluids, and only about 300 calories in food. I had another 300 calories that I didn’t end up eating (until after the ride was over) for no good reason now that I think about it. I bonked with about 3 miles to go, and had to pussyfoot it in at about 5-8mph, basically I couldn’t go above 200 watts or my quads would begin to cramp.
If what I’ve been told is correct, that 1kj is basically 1calorie, then the deficit on this ride was about 2300 calories. So, it would seem that when I get up near the 2000 calorie deficit point I’m riding on thin ice. Have many of you figured out how big a deficit you can run and be OK? With so many people doing Ironman distance races, I would assume there are a lot of you that would answer in the affirmative. I’d be interested to hear what that number is, and how it relates to what you weigh (I’m about 155-8).
And number two… I’m bumping up my training volume a bit and am going to try adding in a 4500kj bout, and will be doing that tommorrow. Any advice as to your preferred solid foods for long rides would be much appreciated. I’d rather eat something with substance than down 20 gu-packets for a ride like that.
I’ve never taken a technical look at my calories before. I have a good idea what I need based on training. By technical I mean actually computed calories burned versus consumed. My knowledge is sort of the the “that was too far without a refill” category. I have also found that as my fitness increases i need less to complete a workout. I believe this is due to improved efficiency of technique and loss of excess body mass. Rather than any real difference in caloric needs. Or in other words, more pratice and less weight increases efficiency.
Needs by race: note these are averages. I left hydration out. It varies with temp too much.
5k-nothing
10k-nothing
10 mile- 1 gel at 6 miles if racing nothing if training.
20k/1/2 mary- 1 gel 1/2 way 1gel for backup (usually last 5k)
marathon/50k- 1 gel every 1/2 hour starting after first 10miles
sprint tri-1 gel last 2 miles on bike
Oly tri-1 gel last 2 miles on bike, one gel backup (last 3k if needed)
1/2 iron- 1 gel 1st 2miles on bike, 1 gel every 1/2 hour, one cliff bar or banana on bike (if needed) 1 gel at 10k on the run, one more when all hope is lost.
Ironman-I’ll let you know next year, I am expierimenting with solids this year, so far it is all bad.
I too am sick of gels for long training rides/bricks, so have been experimenting with dried apricots! I love these little things, of course you need water and should chew well/eat in small doses. I have found them to work better for me than bananas. I can cram a bunch in my rear pocket or bento box and have one every 20-30 min or so, with water and gatorade between.
I hate most bars, as the excessive chewing makes my temples hurt (yeah yeah my helmet fit kinda wierd) and I always feel thirstier after eating one (I know that’s supposed to be the effect, but I don’t like it).
As for the food question, when I train I do the following:
Pre long run/ride: 3-4 med size eggs cooked throughout (not runny). Divide in half and serve on whole wheat bread (two sandwiches=4 slices), salt as necessary, add cheese at your own risk (i don’t). No nonsense combo of protein and carbohydrates. Wait 2 hrs, throw coffee on it in the last 30 min, and enjoy workout. Total: ~650kcal
If its a race, I stick to liquid breakfasts: Ensure and plain yogurt.
Bike:
Peanut butter sandwich (keeps well). Slap 2 tbsp on one slice and fold in half. Do that for another slice and the two fit nicely in a ziploc sandwich bag. However, I wouldn’t trust my stomach w/ peanut butter on race day.
Small pringles 1 serving size pak - I do this b/c I’m trying to incorporate that serving in T2 of my Half IM and IM distance, so far its been working (and a treat to look forward to). After gels and bars on the bike for 3+ hrs, I like the salt - can’t say it’ll add any/much time to transition, just cram in your mouth as you would on your couch. Try to get it to work with the stomach, ie choose something not too greasy, and pringles are pretty non greasy as far as chips go.
Run:
Only gels for me at 10mi distances and greater. Anything shorter will be nothing or maybe a fuel belt flask or two of gatorade if its real hot and I just want something sugary.
you bonking makes a lot of sense, most sources say that your body can store about 2000 calories of glycogen, so a 2300 calorie deficit puts you pretty close to this mark and you bonked. everybody is different and now you know where you are at. That being said, don’t try and push the envelope because every day is different, next time you could bonk earlier- eat more than 500 calories on a 70 mile ride!!
my favorite stuff to eat on long rides are #1 fig newtons (very calorie dense, load a pocket full of fig newtons- about 10 or so is 500+ calories) #2 peak bars- don’t taste at all like energy bars, they’re great. #3 peanut butter and honey sandwich, just plain awesome #4- rice krispie treats- kind of counterintuitive but look at the nutrition facts, really not bad on a ride, just a little low on the calorie side. #5- pancakes folded with your choice of topping, jelly, honey, whatever.
Deficit before bonking depends on how hard you ride. Ride harder, bonk earlier, because you are getting most of your energy from glycogen. Ride easier, bonk later, because you are getting more of your energy from stored fat. Training enables you to use fat more efficiently as well, I’ve read.
Note, when I say ‘bonk earlier’ or ‘bonk later’, I mean not only earlier in terms of time, but earlier in terms of overall energy expenditure.
Last season I had some success with dried apricots, a la AndyPants. I also used raisins. 3-4 of those little individual 2 oz boxes worked pretty well. At a 1/2IM I slammed a box in T2, and then two gels on the run, and I felt great (1 clif, 4 gels on the bike).
Now that I’m going IM, I’m trying to switch to all liquid, carbo-pro mixed with other stuff. I hope it works!
i think his conversion incorporates an approximation of the inefficiencies of cycling. to generate the given work output will require about four times the metabolic input given a 25% efficiency.
i think his conversion incorporates an approximation of the inefficiencies of cycling. to generate the given work output will require about four times the metabolic input given a 25% efficiency.
Indeed, this is the case. I’ve recently read that the conversion should be close to 1.2 kCal per Joule (because people are likely below 25% efficient, and the 4.21 ratio of Joules to kCal). It’s a reasonable rule of thumb for determining caloric expenditure on the bike.
i think his conversion incorporates an approximation of the inefficiencies of cycling. to generate the given work output will require about four times the metabolic input given a 25% efficiency.
Indeed, this is the case. I’ve recently read that the conversion should be close to 1.2 kCal per Joule (because people are likely below 25% efficient, and the 4.21 ratio of Joules to kCal). It’s a reasonable rule of thumb for determining caloric expenditure on the bike.
That’s exactly right. It really is somewhat of a sliding scale based on your efficiency on the bike (which is individual to each person). I have seen 1.02-1.04, I haven’t seen 1.2 but I don’t doubt it at all.
The question is where are your glycogen stores pre-ride, and how much of them are you using for riding and recovery? Depending on how particular you want to get you will need to track pre-ride and in event calories (broken down) and intensities. But really it’s easier to ballpark.
Professional cyclists who need to weigh (for competitive advantage) below what their body’s can support, like Armstrong etc., will often times weigh their food pre-event and track this down to the kcal and kj. That way they can maintain a supra lean body mass during the event. And no, it’s not particularly easy both physically and psychologically. It’s also why so many people see an athlete in the off season and say “He got fat!”. It’s just that you watch them perform at 4-5% body fat, thinking that’s their “normal” state. One can only maintain 4-5% body fat for a short period of time. So their body’s will always gravitate away from their 4-5% event body fat toward 8-10% body fat (a genetic “set point”). That means lose muscle or gain fat. At those BF and weight levels, it’s better and easier to gain fat.
