My favorite running shoe is not a carbon fiber shoe. I would like to race in it with the benefits of a carbon shoe. I came across carbon insoles that I can put under my current insole. This sounds good in theory, but do you think it would yield the same or even some benefits? Another benefit is I can switch the insert between shoes and I can get more miles out of shoes that exceed 100miles before they break down.
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One thing I see on here is folks speculating that much of the magic is actually more in the foam than the carbon, but I don’t actually know.
No putting an insole in won’t make it the same as the supershoes.
It’s not speculating, it’s the truth. A research group cut out the carbon plate from the original vaporfly and it provided the same benefits. Similarly, negligible benefits have been shown from the hoka carbon plate shoes because they use the same foam they always did, at least unless they’ve come out with something new in the last year or so.
For the OP, the answer is no on that. Most likely those insoles will be more detrimental to your foot function than they do anything to help you.
Thanks for the replies. So super shoes will make you faster…but the carbon inside is more of a gimmick . That makes sense why they break down so fast.
The carbon isn’t where the speed comes from but it isn’t a gimmick, either. Unless it’s in a shoe without superfoam (e.g. Hoka for the past few years).
Nike, Asics, and Saucony have all said the efficiency gains are from the foam and the carbon adds stability. High stack with such soft foams is otherwise too unstable.
Thanks for the replies. So super shoes will make you faster…but the carbon inside is more of a gimmick . That makes sense why they break down so fast.
I’ve tried those carbon insoles before. My goodness, they are just terrible and absolutely a gimmick. They are so stiff, your feet will hurt like hell. Pop from the carbon insoles? There’s none. Carbon shoes are way way better because they placed the right size carbon plates strategically in the foam based on their research. Don’t fall for those. You can try them on and return if they have a good return policy.
The carbon plate isn’t really the benefit. It might work in tandem with the foam some but compared to the foam, the plate benefits would be minimal. Zoot was putting carbon plates in their shoes over a decade ago. In 2010 the first pair of Zoots I tried already had carbon plates. I personally liked them and even when they stopped making shoes bought a bunch on clearance. But I liked them because the stiff shoe was more stable for me, they all used regular foam and there wasn’t any real “pop”.
I currently have 2 pairs of shoes with carbon plates + special foam (Endorphin Pros and Vaporfly Next%), and a couple of pairs of Skechers with the foam but no plate. The foam + plate shoes are slightly faster for me but I they also have much more height and therefore more foam. I don’t know if the plate does anything on the super shoes either. Both require more attention to form since heel striking feels weird but no idea if that’s because of plate or just shape of sole.
Don’t use these for running. I used this same insole when I had a metatarsal (foot) fracture to transition out of my cast boot. These insoles do not bend and essentially convert your shoe into a stiff cast/post-op shoe. Which is great if you need a more comfortable cast shoe, but I wouldn’t recommend these for anything else.
That makes sense why they break down so fast.
It is more the nature of fast foams themselves that make them break down quickly. They are a very reactive, high energy return foam. As the bonds in the foam are broken, they aren’t as fast, comfortable, etc.
Dense rubber like a pair of converse last forever but are also slow, heavy, and hard. High rebound, high energy foams are fast, full of air so they are light and are made of lots of little tiny bits of foam with little tiny connections which break down and lose their magic.
If you look at a cross section of where the carbon plate is located within the foam it’s pretty clear what is one of the functions. It’s bent in a spoon shape which will cause two things to happen:
The midfoot bend upwards: When the foot lands, the entire plate will flatten and store energy, especially in the area between the heel/ball of foot. As the weight moves forward on the foot and relieves weight on the heel, the plate bends back to it’s original shape and propels the heel upwards, returning the energy used to bend it.
The toe arc shaped bend: As the weight moves to the forefoot/toe, the arc shaped portion of the plate flattens and stores energy. As weight is relieved from the toe on takeoff, the plate returns to it’s original shape and returns the energy used to bend it.
It’s actually pretty ingenious, he shape of the plate works only because the foam is so incredibly soft. If used in a standard EVA foam there would be such a tiny amount of bending. But allowing the foam to compress >10mm allows significant amounts of energy to be stored.
Thanks for the replies. So super shoes will make you faster…but the carbon inside is more of a gimmick . That makes sense why they break down so fast.
The carbon plate is not a gimmick. The magic is in the foam midsole but without the carbon plate the shoe would be a big marshmallow. It has to have some structure or the foam goes flat. You have to have both.
Thanks for the replies. So super shoes will make you faster…but the carbon inside is more of a gimmick . That makes sense why they break down so fast.
Like everything else in life, there is a tradeoff between performance and durability… if you want something light with the perfect bounce, you can’t have excess material
Thanks for the replies. So super shoes will make you faster…but the carbon inside is more of a gimmick . That makes sense why they break down so fast.
Like everything else in life, there is a tradeoff between performance and durability… if you want something light with the perfect bounce, you can’t have excess material
not so sure, these shoes did push the limit, that is why the 40mm+ models (or multi plate) have been banned under world athletics rules. Think they are still allowed in triathlon though
Low density means less material. The 40mm shoes you’re referring to generally lack the durability of denser shoes. “Excess” here means how much material you’re using. Very little material can be stretched to 40mm stack if you add enough void space.