Tumble/flip turns - need work?

Triathlon Forum
1

Not exactly relevant to triathlon, but I’ve got a query re my tumble turns. When swimming I normally just go off the wall timer, but I used my 920 today and noticed there was a big difference in time between my first 25 and the following 3 25s when doing 100m intervals. Obviously the first lap is always quickest as you push off the wall, but my 25m times were:

16
20
21
20

I was doing 100s on the 1.30, coming in 1.15, 1.16. I’m suprised the first lap was 4s quicker. Unless the 920 is doing something whacky. This is in a 25m pool. Perhaps my turns need work?

2

Flip turns…do you jump rope with your arms when you somersault (arms & hands twirling as you turn)? Do you hold your streamline (arms extended, hand on hand, head looking at the bottom of the pool) when you push off? How many dolphin kicks do you do before breaking the surface? Do you break the surface of the water like a whale breaching it or do you do a couple of strokes before first breath? All the small things…

3

Don’t always believe what Garmin says your lap time is. It’s often very wrong for me. But the interval time is right and that’s all I care about.

4

I was doing 100s on the 1.30, coming in 1.15, 1.16. I’m suprised the first lap was 4s quicker. Unless the 920 is doing something whacky. This is in a 25m pool. Perhaps my turns need work?

i don’t know about wacky, but i’d bet it’s the watch rather than your swimming. i have a suunto ambit, and on the rare occasions when i swim with it, i see the same thing. my guess is that it sometimes just takes a couple of seconds to figure out that you’ve actually started swimming.

5

Flip turns…do you jump rope with your arms when you somersault (arms & hands twirling as you turn)? Do you hold your streamline (arms extended, hand on hand, head looking at the bottom of the pool) when you push off? How many dolphin kicks do you do before breaking the surface? Do you break the surface of the water like a whale breaching it or do you do a couple of strokes before first breath? All the small things…

One of my main issues seems to be I’m struggling for breath with the TTs. I’m a relatively fit tri swimmer, generally FOP, did a 13.58/1km TT yesterday, but when it comes to doing tumble turns, especially in a 25m pool, I struggle a bit. And that stops me from doing any more than one or two weak dolphin kicks and I break the surface like a whale as opposed to taking a couple of strokes before I breathe. I can hold a decent pace in the ocean for a long time, but in a pool, with each turn I get more and more deprived of air, I’m never able to catch up in a 25m pool, just as I recover my breathe from doing a tumble turn, it’s time to turn again…

6

Flip turns…do you jump rope with your arms when you somersault (arms & hands twirling as you turn)? Do you hold your streamline (arms extended, hand on hand, head looking at the bottom of the pool) when you push off? How many dolphin kicks do you do before breaking the surface? Do you break the surface of the water like a whale breaching it or do you do a couple of strokes before first breath? All the small things…

One of my main issues seems to be I’m struggling for breath with the TTs. I’m a relatively fit tri swimmer, generally FOP, did a 13.58/1km TT yesterday, but when it comes to doing tumble turns, especially in a 25m pool, I struggle a bit. And that stops me from doing any more than one or two weak dolphin kicks and I break the surface like a whale as opposed to taking a couple of strokes before I breathe. I can hold a decent pace in the ocean for a long time, but in a pool, with each turn I get more and more deprived of air, I’m never able to catch up in a 25m pool, just as I recover my breathe from doing a tumble turn, it’s time to turn again…

How long have you been doing flip turns??? Based on your swim pace, I would guess a long, long time???

7

Flip turns…do you jump rope with your arms when you somersault (arms & hands twirling as you turn)? Do you hold your streamline (arms extended, hand on hand, head looking at the bottom of the pool) when you push off? How many dolphin kicks do you do before breaking the surface? Do you break the surface of the water like a whale breaching it or do you do a couple of strokes before first breath? All the small things…

One of my main issues seems to be I’m struggling for breath with the TTs. I’m a relatively fit tri swimmer, generally FOP, did a 13.58/1km TT yesterday, but when it comes to doing tumble turns, especially in a 25m pool, I struggle a bit. And that stops me from doing any more than one or two weak dolphin kicks and I break the surface like a whale as opposed to taking a couple of strokes before I breathe. I can hold a decent pace in the ocean for a long time, but in a pool, with each turn I get more and more deprived of air, I’m never able to catch up in a 25m pool, just as I recover my breathe from doing a tumble turn, it’s time to turn again…

How long have you been doing flip turns??? Based on your swim pace, I would guess a long, long time???

Well my whole life, since a kid, but it’s not really something I’ve worked on for a long, long time. Swimming squads, I just tend to do a nice lazy flip turn, not quick or dynamic. I just figured that perhaps I’m missing out a second or two because of my average flip turns. I guess I just need to work on them a bit more.

8

Flip turns…do you jump rope with your arms when you somersault (arms & hands twirling as you turn)? Do you hold your streamline (arms extended, hand on hand, head looking at the bottom of the pool) when you push off? How many dolphin kicks do you do before breaking the surface? Do you break the surface of the water like a whale breaching it or do you do a couple of strokes before first breath? All the small things…

One of my main issues seems to be I’m struggling for breath with the TTs. I’m a relatively fit tri swimmer, generally FOP, did a 13.58/1km TT yesterday, but when it comes to doing tumble turns, especially in a 25m pool, I struggle a bit. And that stops me from doing any more than one or two weak dolphin kicks and I break the surface like a whale as opposed to taking a couple of strokes before I breathe. I can hold a decent pace in the ocean for a long time, but in a pool, with each turn I get more and more deprived of air, I’m never able to catch up in a 25m pool, just as I recover my breathe from doing a tumble turn, it’s time to turn again…

How long have you been doing flip turns??? Based on your swim pace, I would guess a long, long time???

Well my whole life, since a kid, but it’s not really something I’ve worked on for a long, long time. Swimming squads, I just tend to do a nice lazy flip turn, not quick or dynamic. I just figured that perhaps I’m missing out a second or two because of my average flip turns. I guess I just need to work on them a bit more.

Well, I’m glad to hear that you’re a long-time swimmer; if you’d said “oh I’ve just been swimming for 3 months”, I was going to be pissed that you were swimming that fast so soon. :slight_smile: Anyway, maybe you just need to just do one dolphin kick, surface sooner, and get your air sooner. I definitely notice the same issue when I’m swimming pretty hard. Swimming easy, no issue at all, or even at a medium pace, but going hard for 400 m or longer, I find myself gasping for air coming up out of each turn. Also, if you watch videos of the top swimmers in 400 m and longer races, they almost never do the long underwater breakout with multiple dolphin kicks but rather they are usually doing just 1-2 dolphin kicks before getting back to the surface.

9

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIjJggOjsoa/
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10

I think it’s the watch. When you first push off you’ll glide longer than any other length add to that if you wear the watch on your left and breakout with your right … the watch measures from your first stroke. I think