I am in the very immediate future going to purchase a disk and a Hed 3…My only worry is do I buy tubular or Clincher. I have never worked with Tubular and I think I may make a very serious mess if i tried…But dont Tubular’s ride better. No problem with clincher I can change that in a second…Just dont want to make a bad purchase…
Tubies.
Tubulars…they are the only race wheel.
The link below is to an article on Analytic Cycling. It shows that clinchers have a LOWER rolling resitance than tubulars. As far as which rides better, that is not only very subjective but depends a great deal on how much air pressure you have in your tires. FYI- higher pressure is not always better. Tires are designed to work best within a given pressure range and this range is typically not the MAX pressure rating of the tire.
I’m a LONNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGTTTTTTTTTIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEE tubie snob…I’ve bought, mounted, and worn out more tubular tires than most folks here have changed tubes in their clinchers.
So you’d expect me to recommend tubulars…
You’d be wrong…
My race wheels of choice right now are a set of Hed Alps CLINCHER!!! with Michelin Pro Race Lights mounted. These are incredibly fast wheels. Don’t believe a clincher can be fast? Chris McCormack did a 7:57 ironman at Roth last year using an Alps clincher front. Good enough for me…
Clinchers are heavy so they say…well, my rear Alps is even heavier because of the PowerTap Pro hub. No biggie…Still comes in under the weight of a Hed Disc and Continental Competition tubular. And my TT bike still comes in under 18 lbs using the Alps.
The ONLY wheels I have that are tubular these days (since I just sold my Hed 3 tubies) is a set of Zipp 202s with Zipp tubulars mounted…I have these for SUPERLIGHT road racing climbing wheels…they will NEVER see a multisport tt leg.
You’ll see a lot of the tubular snobs come out and say tubies are the only choice. In bygone days, they’d be 100% correct…LOOONNNNGGGG bygone days…
You can race clinchers and be not only fast and competitive, but win at high levels…
Still don’t believe me? A friend of mine just went 9:28 and AG win at IM Arizona in his FIRST ironman! Yes, he has good genetics…but his Zipp 404 clinchers sure didn’t slow him down.
I too was a long time “tubular snob”. When I first began racing 17 years ago, you trained on clinchers and raced on tubulars or you werent a true racer. I have recently switched to clinchers for racing as well (I still have an older HED disc that is tubular). I cant tell a difference in ride quality. I dont think that you will win or lose a race or a PR by running either.
Both have their pluses and minuses. Tubulars have the plus of being harder to pinch flat and tubular rims can be made all carbon which are lighter (but the braking sucks, especially in the rain). The downside is fixing a flat is harder, and tubulars can still get a glass or thorn puncture or sidewall cut (happened this morning while taking my disc out for a spin around the block!).
It is also easier to change out tires for different courses. If you are doing a race with lots of corners and rough pavement then throw on some 23’s, if it is smooth and fast throw on some 20’s, if it is laden with thorns then put some spinskin liners into the tires.
I know many pro teams run tubulars, but unless you race over cobblestones and have multiple sets of wheels with a mechanic to glue them up for you then they may not be worth the hassle. Of course you can get a set of tubulars and have the satisfaction of belonging to an elite club while secretly or not so secretly feeling superior to those ordinary mortals on their clinchers.
Clinchers.
Faster, cheaper. You can change them in the rain.
Unless you are getting the all carbon Hed wheels, you won't find much difference between the clincher and the tubular. The big advantage of tubulars is the lighter all carbon rims, like the Zipp404's. The standard Hed3 and the Hed disc or the Renn (that's the disc to get!) have and aluminum rim for both tubie and clincher making the weight very close. And, if you pump your tires for every ride you won't get any more flats on a clincher than a Tubular.
Been racing in Zip 404 clinchers. I figure easier to change if get a flat. Also decided was easier to work with the tubulars anyway. Not skilled as far as cementing on tires well either. Thats what helped me decide on clinchers.
Have you ever tried to change a deep dish race wheel clincher like a Zipp 404 in a hurry? Two words - Good Luck- It is a bitch… I dumped the 404 clinchers and bought 404 Tubs…
Do you folks know how much weight savings there is between a regular tube and a light tube. Is a light or ultralight tube more prone to puncture?
“Have you ever tried to change a deep dish race wheel clincher like a Zipp 404 in a hurry?”
As a matter of fact, I have. The difficulty has more to do with the choice of tire than the rims. I found Zipp 404 clinchers and my Alps are no more or less difficult than CXP-33s or Open Pros to mount tires on. Your observation is not valid.
Have YOU ever had to change a tubie properly and solidly mounted with a solid track-type glue (the best method for mounting tubies)??? THAT is a bitch…at least to get started…
I would recommend getting whatever you think you’ll be happier with in the long run. I like have tubular race wheels mainly because it feels “special” to pull them out on race week and glue up some tires like you are going into battle. Gluing on tire is not a big deal to me and I find it kind of fun. I’ve had to change a couple of tubular flats in races and it is easier to change out than a clincher but you also have to spend some time to check that you got it centered on the rim pretty good, so they probably aren’t any faster to change than a clincher. Also, I find having to carry an extra tubular for long course races to be a bit of a pain. Just taking an extra tube would be easier and lighter. That all said, I’ll still be going to battle with tubulars…
“Have you ever tried to change a deep dish race wheel clincher like a Zipp 404 in a hurry?”
As a matter of fact, I have. The difficulty has more to do with the choice of tire than the rims. I found Zipp 404 clinchers and my Alps are no more or less difficult than CXP-33s or Open Pros to mount tires on. Your observation is not valid.
Have YOU ever had to change a tubie properly and solidly mounted with a solid track-type glue (the best method for mounting tubies)??? THAT is a bitch…at least to get started…
what is your choice of tires?
In 2001 I had a set of 404 clinchers and it was near imposible to mount an Axial Pro on those wheels. Perhaps Zipp has changed the wheel since then.
In 2001 I had a set of 404 clinchers and it was near imposible to mount an Axial Pro on those wheels. Perhaps Zipp has changed the wheel since then.
I have the 2002 404 clinchers and it is almost impossible to put Conti GP3000’s on them, but I could take that tire on/off Mavic Open Pros without tools.
Try and get a custom clincher. If you have never worked with a tubular let me tell you, it’s sometimes hard getting the tire on a normal rim wheel because the tires fit so tightly and on a disk, it’s ridiculously hard because you can’t use your fingers around the rim. Custom because the normal HED is really heavy in the clincher version and the superlite I think only comes in tubular. Maybe if you are lighter you can get a thinner carbon sideded one. Changing tubulars is a pain, and as soon as I can get a clincher disk I am getting ride of my tubular disks.
One more thing - HED recommends against the use ov Vittoria and Vredestein clinchers so if you like those tires you may want to reconsider. Look at Renn!
Not sure what happened to Renn’s front wheel project.
Michelin Pro Race.
You guys need stronger hands. ;->
The Michelins are stiff going on, to be sure…but not impossible…and certainly doable without costing time in a race…
Maybe 20+ years of playing guitar and being able to do 40+ pullups helps my hand strength…I don’t know…I just know I don’t have any problem changing tubes or tires on 404 clinchers.