Has anybody run tubeless with tire inserts in a triathlon? I’ve heard chatter that this setup is pretty reliable in 2022 for road bikes (it’s been around in the mountain biking world for some time). To be able to flat and still ride reliably on the tire insert regardless of the kind of seal you get sounds like a huge deal.
A tire insert is not a tube. Here’s an example of a tire insert for a road tire: https://tubolight.bike/products/tubolight-evo-road/
Vittoria is the only one I’m aware of where you can ‘ride’ a flat on the insert and I got the chance to test it on my MTB at Cheq100 instead of stopping in the middle of ten thousand mosquitoes. It requires a lot more effort and the handling is suspicious at best. You definitely would not be cruising along anywhere near a normal pace on a road bike.
The smallest inserts I have used are the cx/gravel sized ones from Vittoria (and I’m getting rid of the set in my 40 mm gravel tires). For as much complaining as you see online about the install, that’s nothing compared to how difficult they are to remove. It’s really hard breaking the bead and getting the beads into the center channel so that you can remove one full side of bead, remove the insert, wipe out some sealant, put a tube in, etc. There’s a noodle blocking you.
I have read, but haven’t confirmed personally, that the road version is even more difficult to work with. As always, your experience will vary greatly depending on your rim and tire combo. If the tires you plan to use are already really hard to get off of your rim without an insert, an insert is going to make it next to impossible. In almost 20 years of working with tubeless setups, an insert caused the only tire I ever had to cut off a rim. Once I cut the tire enough to pull the insert out, then I was able to hold other sections of the tire and muscle it off of the rim. That was on a Bontrager MTB rim with that thick rim strip and a Vittoria tire with a fairly tight bead compared to the Bontrager tires that were on it before. That’s just a cautionary tale of how tough fixing a flat could be with an insert if your tire and rim combo is already pretty snug.
Edit: You need to replace the insert after riding it flat. Plugs and air got me rolling again, but the inserts rattled around in the tire and noticeably affected the balance of the wheel once hitting a mph in the high teens.
just wanted to say +1
I picked up some vitt liners to try out… fortunately I decided to first try mounting it with an old Corsa speed. Getting it on, even with a worn tire, reminded me of trying to mount an old continental tubular that hadn’t been stretched. It was next to impossible.
That said, it was impossible to remove without damaging something. Fwiw I didn’t have vittoria’s toolkit, but a fully stocked garage and nothing would go under the lip of the tire that wouldn’t possibly damage the rim with prying. I had to cut the tire off. Would have been perturbed if it had been a new $100+ tire.
I’d say to OP, tread careful. I like the idea, but at least for my wheel / tire combo I think I’ll pass.
picked up some vitt liners to try out… fortunately I decided to first try mounting it with an old Corsa speed.
You are a masochist.
as was mentioned here, the idea of a foam liner in a road wheel is extremely appealing to me. but the reality has been less so, so far. here’s the problem: the liner is smaller than the wheel. you stretch it on. once you put it in a wheel, it seeks the well of the wheel. all the wheels i’m riding now have pretty significant wells. when mounting a tire, the only way to easily get that tire over the rim if to seat the first bead of the tire in the well. this gives you more room to get that second bead over the rim.
but you can’t get that first bead in the well, because the foam core is jealous of that well and won’t share that space. if there’s a technique to this i haven’t found it.
They can be a PITA but many benefits including reduced “burping”. I have a set for a gravel wheelset and a few for mtb. IMO the cushcore tool, think bigger handled tire lever, is a big help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_uwmF9ObQg&ab_channel=BermPeakExpress
but you can’t get that first bead in the well, because the foam core is jealous of that well and won’t share that space. if there’s a technique to this i haven’t found it.
I have only worked with a couple of brands, but bead, insert, bead (Vittoria and Tannus style) has worked better for me (along with very soapy water) than insert, bead, bead (Cushcore style). The inserts stretch more than the tire and tend to find their home once the beads are popped into place during inflation. I can’t say if that works with road/tri tires though.
Edit: Stretching the inserts ahead of time like a tubular tire helps.
as far as i understand, those inserts have a max range (like 50km) and you need a special tool to be able to open the tire once it’s in.
IMO, great if you are never more that 50-75km from home, but not a reasonable option for an IM race.
Has anybody run tubeless with tire inserts in a triathlon? I’ve heard chatter that this setup is pretty reliable in 2022 for road bikes (it’s been around in the mountain biking world for some time). To be able to flat and still ride reliably on the tire insert regardless of the kind of seal you get sounds like a huge deal.
I did in a cross bike wheel setup. Did the gray one, whatever brand that is, to avoid burps. Honestly though, it was ludicrous even following their “easy 123 steps”. Like I didn’t mount them this year for cross it was so bad.
Same thing, since it occupies the well and pushes the tire up on the bead, it makes install a bear.
Road? No idea.
as was mentioned here, the idea of a foam liner in a road wheel is extremely appealing to me. but the reality has been less so, so far. here’s the problem: the liner is smaller than the wheel. you stretch it on. once you put it in a wheel, it seeks the well of the wheel. all the wheels i’m riding now have pretty significant wells. when mounting a tire, the only way to easily get that tire over the rim if to seat the first bead of the tire in the well. this gives you more room to get that second bead over the rim.
but you can’t get that first bead in the well, because the foam core is jealous of that well and won’t share that space. if there’s a technique to this i haven’t found it.
You do have to be pretty deliberate about pushing the bead under the insert and into the well.
- On gravel tires with Vittoria inserts I can do this with a normal (Pedros) tire lever. I place the flat end of the lever parallel to the bead and push perpendicular to the wheel to press the bead into the well and under the insert.
- On MTB tires with CushCore inserts, the CushCore lever (with it’s bulbous handle) makes this much more comfortable.
- I have not done this on road tubeless with presumably tighter beads to handle higher pressures, so YMMV.
For Removal:
- You have to repeat the above process. Instead of trying to lever under the beat, go around the entire tire pressing the bead into the well. Once that happens you can get underneath and remove the tire like normal.
- In the whole scheme of things you should most rely on plugging a tire and changing a tube only when necessary. The Stans Darts do a remarkable job of plugging holes.
Riding on Inserts
- I’ve only done it my enduro bike when a gashed a sidewall and couldn’t plug it. Being ~2 miles from the trailhead, I decided to ride it out instead of replacing the tube (Which is difficult to do on MTB without the CushCore lever). Safely descended ~2 miles of technical trail with the insert at 50% speed. No damage to the wheel.
as far as i understand, those inserts have a max range (like 50km) and you need a special tool to be able to open the tire once it’s in.
IMO, great if you are never more that 50-75km from home, but not a reasonable option for an IM race.
Tire plugs and you’re riding in 15 seconds.
The special tool that Vittoria sells is essentially a pair of pliers to press the bead off the shelf and into the well.
You can do this one side at a tire with a tire lever.
The special tool that Vittoria sells is essentially a pair of pliers to press the bead off the shelf and into the well. You can do this one side at a tire with a tire lever.
thank you for the primer on foam inserts. i wonder if this is easier on MTB or gravel. it’s a bear on road. but it might be me. i have 2 sets of foam inserts, have tried this several times, different wheels, haven’t gotten it down yet.
on the pliers you mention, i find these are helpful especially when getting a really sucked on tire off the shelf. in this case, the really sucked on tires tend to occur on wheels that have a pronounced bead lock on the rim shelf. sometimes the combo of that bead lock plus the shape of the tire bead, or how soft that rubber is, keeps that tire from popping back over the hump and off the shelf. after all, the point of the bead lock is to lock the bead in place.
i think if you also have the foam core keeping the tire in place, that explains the need for that tool.
I’ve had the Vittoria airliners for a long time and still not installed. Got their whole install kit etc etc and only manage to break tire levers and their clips. Honestly I would settle for front tire only for safety, but no luck. When I get new tires I usually give it a go, fail ride a few hundred miles give it another go and fail again.