i’ve been riding my tri bike for the past couple years really steep (80-82 deg), and am getting into pure road cycling this season.
in reading most of dan’s stuff on tri bike fit, the suggestion is that hip angle should be 90 deg.
how do i ride slacker (76 or so?) without raising the front end up a lot to compensate? i want to stay aero, but involve my glutes for power…i can sustain a decent speed in the current position, but can’t break the 40km/hr barrier b/c of lack of top end power. (over a tt…went 37km/hr over 90k last year, but couldn’t go 40k/15k in a TT…)
is there a good fitting website out there that i can take some info from for tt specific fit? or any suggestions or guidelines?
krgregg, I am coming from the other direction. Having raced for 20 years and have done 40k in 53:25 in the “road position” I have noticed that the biggest difference is that in the road position you have to do circles more than just pushing to go fast. Tri is more pushing and half running so the transition is easier. To train for the road position concentrate on circles and if you lift weights work the top of you quads and calfs. Hope this helps.
IMO, you should be able to generate sufficient power from a typical tri setup and that the two positions can be one in the same. I ride my P2k steep (~80 degrees) with substantial drop (~12cm) and can generate plenty of power. In a recent 40k TT, I finished in 54:20 and averaged 323W. This is also the same position that I raced several tris including two HIMs with bike splits of 2:19 (avg 260 W) and 2:21 (avg 250 W) and ran pretty good in each 94’ and 96’ in each. If you were going to ride slacker, I would think you would need a smaller bike (shorter top tube) to maintain the same aggressive position in a slack position and you may not go any faster. Train yourself to ride comfortably and more powerful in the tri/TT position doing longer tempo and LT intervals. I also climb very well in my aggressive TT position without getting out of the saddle.
You know that you don’t have to move the saddle back, per UCI rules…? USA Cycling only enforces the UCI rule if you are trying to qualify for a world’s event. You can keep your current setup if you want to.
At USCF events, more guys are riding steep than ever before…
Perhaps your question is regarding cross of power b/w a road bike and your steep TT position, to which I’ll leave that one for the scientists around here.
I understand your problem, but I too come from the other direction. I mostly ride road, so when I go to my tri bike, I get a power loss (but feel much better transitioning to run). Quite simply, I do not train enough on the tri bike to develop the muscles as well as my “roadie” muscles. If you already do most of your miles on the tri bike, I would stick to that geometry for the TT. Your “tri” muscles will be developed better than your “roadies”. This is probably a combination of muscle strength/development and muscle memory - but I speculate.
hmm…i’m in canada (racing most likely in alberta) and had a friend get stopped last year and he was required to move his saddle back.
up here, i race under a UCI license, not a USCF liscence or the equivalent to the US thing.
therein lies the problem, i’m pretty comfortable, but think i should maybe move back to 78deg or so and get used to riding there, so that if i’m required to move the post back further, i don’t get drilled too badly if i am requested to move it back to “legal”…
i shall email the head of the ABA and see what the official stance is on seat position…but if one were to ride shallow, what changes are required to be made…just make the hip angle more acute and ride further forward on the saddle instead?
i do need a smaller bicycle i believe…i’m bottomed out right now on my frame, but that’s definitly not in the budget…a retrofit on the carbon x’s might be more worthwhile.
K dog, believe it or not i had a great deal of difficulty breaking the 40km/h speed limit; it took me years. You’re devoloping more power the more you ride with road only goofs like me. The trade off is i’d hate to see you in the water following this spring. considering that your road bike is about 73 degrees STA switching to a tt bike that is 9 degrees steeper will probably f$ck you up a bit if you’re doing 95% of your riding on the orbea.
My opinion is that you should do a couple of things, first, switch to a zero offset post for a few weeks, and rock the saddle in the middle, achieving about a 78 degree sta. Following that if you feel “cramped” or like you want to stretch your legs out, go to a normal post that will give you about 76d. Given your current pos’n i think it will be easy to stay as aero as you are now but slacken the sta.
we can discuss in detail while you’re helping me lay tile at xmas, but you need to get tougher with the tt pos’n. And most importantly you need to get your hands around GIVEN’R at tt’s. If you really want to rip it then you should barf at the end of the tt, thats how you know that you left nothing out there. Its a irondude’s nature not to leave it all out on the bike course, but we’ll correct that through “experienced based learning” IE i’ll make you bonk so hard on rides this spring you forget what your name is and try to trade your bike for a hotdog.
i was thinking the zero-setback post is probably the way to go…i’ll bring shoes home at christmas and we can take a look…need to rebuild the bike anyway.
you have any extra posts lying around, or should i buy a cheap one online?
K dog, believe it or not … but you need to get tougher with the tt pos’n. And most importantly you need to get your hands around GIVEN’R at tt’s. If you really want to rip it then you should barf at the end of the tt, thats how you know that you left nothing out there. Its a irondude’s nature not to leave it all out on the bike course, but we’ll correct that through “experienced based learning” IE i’ll make you bonk so hard on rides this spring you forget what your name is and try to trade your bike for a hotdog.
…but if one were to ride shallow, what changes are required to be made…just make the hip angle more acute and ride further forward on the saddle instead?
If you have to slide the saddle back, it usually requires raising the bars almost the same amount and moving them back, as well. Or, you could just lean over more – that’s an option you’ll have to experiment with and figure out if it works. Another solution is an Adamo saddle, since you can sit way out on the tip of it and still hold position. I just got one, and I figure it’s about the equivalent of having the saddle 3-4cm farther forward. IOW – I can set the nose of the Adamo 3-4cm farther back than my Profile tri saddle, and still ride in the same position.
In fact, I have to do that since I finally realized that my saddle (in my race setup) was not 5cm in front of the bb, as I had thought, but it was actually 8cm in front. I don’t want to get dinged by the equipment nazis at a race.
krgregg, take my limited experience for what it’s worth
I race triathlon sitting at 80*, more when I’m on the nose. At the end of this past season raced the Ontario Provincial TT champs where UCI rules applied (ie. seat 5cm behind BB, cockpit length withing certain limits as well) After a season of riding with the seat well forward of the BB I was a bit concerned with how it would go. To be honest I didn’t really need long to adapt at all. I went for an hour ride and it seemed weird at first but I got used to it quickly.
The TT went well and to be honest I never once thought of it while racing. The pain searing through my legs, lungs and heart was enough to keep my mind occupied.
By the way my bike came with a neat little seat post that allows you three positions (Aerus Halo) I rode the TT in the middle hole with the seat back on the rails, for tri, I ride in the forward hole with the saddle forward on the rails.
This is the post, if interested I’m sure Speedy from the forum could point you in the right direction.
I moved the saddle on my P3 from steep to shallow halfway through the season. No real difference in speed, as others have mentioned.
Meant I went from sitting on the middle of the saddle to sitting on the nose. Didn’t change the cockpit so I’m slightly more stretched out.
I don’t tend to get off the bike and run, so this suits me as all my bikes handle similarly, with me positioned in the same way between the wheels.
equipment nazis (IE UCI etc) say 5cm behind the BB, not in from. Good luck tryin to move your seat back 13cm to get legal.
I think he probably means the Triathlon equipment nazis as opposed to the TT nazis you are referring to.
equipment nazis (IE UCI etc) say 5cm behind the BB, not in from. Good luck tryin to move your seat back 13cm to get legal.
I’m talking about USAT rules - the limit is 5cm in front of the bb.
This is the post, if interested I’m sure Speedy from the forum could point you in the right direction.