I climb very little on either tbh, flat round here (road bike is a bianchi oltre xr2 which when I got it I was told is just under the UCI limit, TT bike is a heavier Argon18 E114, I would guesstimate the TT bike to be 1.5KGs heavier)
I am flexible with a strong core so can hold the TT position fairly well for long periods.
We have a very similar TT in our local stage race, but with a short downhill and a flat section at the end. Folks used to ride road bikes with clip-ons, but they got tired of the TT bikes beating them. At 12-13 mph there is still a substantial aero advantage to be had on the TT bike, if you can generate nearly the same power as on the road bike.
I ride it regularly on both road and TT bike in training, so I have a lot of data. The TT bike is 30-40 seconds faster on the hill alone, even more for the full course.
This if you can stay tucked and can still put out same power at ~12-14 mph. See US Pro Tour Challenge uphill section and Teejay or Uran at moderate hilly 1st TT of the Giro. A lot of riders though have power disparities on road versus tt (could be 20 watt difference from the data I’ve seen lately from the Pro Ranks). If that is the case back to the roadie.
We have a very similar TT in our local stage race, but with a short downhill and a flat section at the end. Folks used to ride road bikes with clip-ons, but they got tired of the TT bikes beating them. At 12-13 mph there is still a substantial aero advantage to be had on the TT bike, if you can generate nearly the same power as on the road bike.
I ride it regularly on both road and TT bike in training, so I have a lot of data. The TT bike is 30-40 seconds faster on the hill alone, even more for the full course.
Something seems off…30-40" is what most claims are for a TT bike in a 40k TT vs. a road bike. Seems like a HUGE delta for a 5 mile, uphill TT.
We have a very similar TT in our local stage race, but with a short downhill and a flat section at the end. Folks used to ride road bikes with clip-ons, but they got tired of the TT bikes beating them. At 12-13 mph there is still a substantial aero advantage to be had on the TT bike, if you can generate nearly the same power as on the road bike.
I ride it regularly on both road and TT bike in training, so I have a lot of data. The TT bike is 30-40 seconds faster on the hill alone, even more for the full course.
Something seems off…30-40" is what most claims are for a TT bike in a 40k TT vs. a road bike. Seems like a HUGE delta for a 5 mile, uphill TT.
40 seconds over 40k would only be a 10W difference (ROT IS 10W ~= 1s/km) in aero drag between the road and TT setups. That seems fairly low to me.
I raced San Dimas Stage RAce TT and Joe Martin Stage Race TT this year on the pro NRC circuit. Both uphill at about 5-6% average and 95+% of riders were on road bikes with maybe only 20% using clip ons. And this with average speeds approaching 28-30kmh.
For the vast majority of pros it would seem uphill absolute power is compromised on a TT rig. So unless you know you can crank the torque and watts in aero I would stick to the roadie, especially considering your speed will be 8-10kmh slower.
We have a very similar TT in our local stage race, but with a short downhill and a flat section at the end. Folks used to ride road bikes with clip-ons, but they got tired of the TT bikes beating them. At 12-13 mph there is still a substantial aero advantage to be had on the TT bike, if you can generate nearly the same power as on the road bike.
I ride it regularly on both road and TT bike in training, so I have a lot of data. The TT bike is 30-40 seconds faster on the hill alone, even more for the full course.
Something seems off…30-40" is what most claims are for a TT bike in a 40k TT vs. a road bike. Seems like a HUGE delta for a 5 mile, uphill TT.
Really? A TT bike is only worth 3/4 to 1 sec/km over a road bike? Not on this planet, where just putting clip-ons on a road bike saves 1-1.5 sec/km.
But thanks for making me re-examine my numbers. I’ll grant you that my delta(road-TT) is probably larger than most. My TT position has pretty low drag (CdA .21-.22), but my road bike position is fairly upright. Also, the wheels that live on my TT bike are much more aero than the training wheels on my road bike, and have lower Crr.
That said, I’ll still stand by the statements made above, particularly the underlined one. If you don’t believe it, just go to analyticcycling and plug in the numbers. It’s just physics!
Joe Martin is 6.8% average according to one source I checked, and while almost everyone uses a road bike, it has been won on a TT bike before on the men’s side!
I rode the course a few times this year and was thinking hell yes I would use a TT bike, if I had a light one…but I’m weird in that I lose no power.
I raced San Dimas Stage RAce TT and Joe Martin Stage Race TT this year on the pro NRC circuit. Both uphill at about 5-6% average and 95+% of riders were on road bikes with maybe only 20% using clip ons. And this with average speeds approaching 28-30kmh.
For the vast majority of pros it would seem uphill absolute power is compromised on a TT rig. So unless you know you can crank the torque and watts in aero I would stick to the roadie, especially considering your speed will be 8-10kmh slower.
We have a very similar TT in our local stage race, but with a short downhill and a flat section at the end. Folks used to ride road bikes with clip-ons, but they got tired of the TT bikes beating them. At 12-13 mph there is still a substantial aero advantage to be had on the TT bike, if you can generate nearly the same power as on the road bike.
I ride it regularly on both road and TT bike in training, so I have a lot of data. The TT bike is 30-40 seconds faster on the hill alone, even more for the full course.
Something seems off…30-40" is what most claims are for a TT bike in a 40k TT vs. a road bike. Seems like a HUGE delta for a 5 mile, uphill TT.
40 seconds over 40k would only be a 10W difference (ROT IS 10W ~= 1s/km) in aero drag between the road and TT setups. That seems fairly low to me.
Sorry…poor phrasing on my part. I was referring mostly to the frame, not the resulting change in position, as well. And with the speeds the OP was talking about (12-13 mph), I doubt many people are holding an aero position.
We have a very similar TT in our local stage race, but with a short downhill and a flat section at the end. Folks used to ride road bikes with clip-ons, but they got tired of the TT bikes beating them. At 12-13 mph there is still a substantial aero advantage to be had on the TT bike, if you can generate nearly the same power as on the road bike.
I ride it regularly on both road and TT bike in training, so I have a lot of data. The TT bike is 30-40 seconds faster on the hill alone, even more for the full course.
Something seems off…30-40" is what most claims are for a TT bike in a 40k TT vs. a road bike. Seems like a HUGE delta for a 5 mile, uphill TT.
40 seconds over 40k would only be a 10W difference (ROT IS 10W ~= 1s/km) in aero drag between the road and TT setups. That seems fairly low to me.
Sorry…poor phrasing on my part. I was referring mostly to the frame, not the resulting change in position, as well. And with the speeds the OP was talking about (12-13 mph), I doubt many people are holding an aero position.
Then something is wrong about their aero position…I can hold mine going up am 8% average grade! going ~9mph or so, ~20 minutes at a time…
Even so, depending on the road and TT frames being considered, it most likely is well more than 10W on the frame alone…heck, I saw more like 10-15W just between a P2K and a P3C.
So because you can hold your position like that, everyone should / can?
What ever happened to “N=1”?
The reality is that at speeds higher than even the 12-13 mph noted by the OP, people start bailing out of their aero position. What was Rapp’s “breaking point” where the data indicated he was better sitting up? IIRC, it was around 15 mph, and he obviously has a very slippery position.
So because you can hold your position like that, everyone should / can?
What ever happened to “N=1”?
The reality is that at speeds higher than even the 12-13 mph noted by the OP, people start bailing out of their aero position. What was Rapp’s “breaking point” where the data indicated he was better sitting up? IIRC, it was around 15 mph, and he obviously has a very slippery position.
Jordan has a slippery position for a long course triathlete, I’m pretty sure he could get slipperier if he was concentrating on short TTs
In any case, you’re getting off the point that the difference between a typical road frame of today and a TT frame is usually more than ~10W.
