So Dan’s poll got me thinking again about the one purchase I have been holding off on that I have wanted for awhile but just can’t justify the spend…powertap power meter. If I wanted to do it right, I guess I would have a powertap in a training wheel and one built into my race wheel although my guess is, (as an age grouper doing my second full at IMCDA this year), during an IM distance race it would be more important to listen to my heart rate anyway than to follow power output to avoid getting into trouble. 2 questions:
Does power make that big of a difference as opposed to training by HR with regard to improving cycling ability (ie holding 275 watts for a given time as opposed to threshold HR) or does using HR deliver similar results at the end of the day? If you train with power, do you need the power meter on race day for a full IM or just go by HR?
Trying to decide if it is time to contribute to the economy again with a nice frivilous purchase…
Using a power meter will enhance your training to the degree that you use the data it provided effectively.
In other words- the power meter does nothing except tell you some information. It is up to you how (if) you choose to employ that information.
Now, that said, a power meter can provide a valauble insight into your fitness and be a valuable tool in doing productive training to benefit your training.
One phenomenon I have noticed with power meters is a culture of athletes who say they “can’t race without it” . That is, if they were plunked into a race situation they seem to think they could not pace themselves to produce an optimal result. If this were the case the rank n’ file age grouper times would have come way down across the board when power meters became available. That may not have happened unilaterally- if it has, I’d like to see some numbers on it.
For me the power meter is an interesting, albeit expensive, tool. There may be additional costs associated with it if you feel hiring a coach to interpret the data and provide insights on improving your training is necessary.
When considering the purchase one may do well to weigh it against using that same total dollar amount for other equipment or race entry fees, travel expenses, etc- in other words, is it the best place to put your money? It may be, it may not- it depends on the degree to which you effectively employ the data.
Thanks for the insight!! Been working with a coach the last 5 years (definitely have seen more improvement from this than any piece of equipment) training by HR and pace (mostly HR on the bike). His take on power is that the athletes he coaches with it improve and he is a fan of using it but he can’t say that these athletes would not have improved training with HR/pace over the same period of time…I have been steadly improving each year working with him not using power (I am diligent about hitting my workouts as close to prescribed as possible) but I guess the follow up question is, could the gains be larger if I use the power properly?
Demerly gave a good run down of things, as usual.
As a coach (cycling, not tri) here are the advantages from my end of things. Power is quantifiable. Yes, I coach plenty of athletes that don’t have a PM (and I encourage them not to get an HRM). But with power I can see what you’re doing, if you’re improving and specifically what we need to work on. So yes, you can improve with an HRM but by how much we don’t know. Conversely, if you have a bad day it’s hard to know why.
With a tri or TT focused athlete I would also want to do some field testing to see how aero you are. Certainly you can do a lot with a good fitting but at some point it would be nice to get some solid CdA data.
So yes, you’ll certainly improve almost no matter what you do. Will you be able to quantify that improvement, not really. Will your coach have a better idea of what is going on with you as an athlete, absolutely.
Good answers so far. I would add 2 points:
- Power is a consistent measure of exercise intensity and is therefore a much better measure of effort during a race than HR. I have seen power files from IMs when the HR values were largely consistent but the power was not. In the end, more information is good if you use it.
You can do a search on here and see a litany of debates about IM pacing with power versus HR.
- Power becomes increasingly helpful the more intense a training sessions gets. It is quite hard to pace intervals above threshold well by HR I have found. Power lets you do them consistently week to week. If you do such training, it will be helpful.
Does power make that big of a difference as opposed to training by HR with regard to improving cycling ability (ie holding 275 watts for a given time as opposed to threshold HR) or does using HR deliver similar results at the end of the day?
Training with power does not automatically improve cycling ability. It is not an “install and go faster” tool. Use of the information can sharpen the picture and take out much of the guesswork, if you know how to interpret the data. Have you read the bible? http://www.velopress.com/cycling.php?id=213
If you train with power, do you need the power meter on race day for a full IM or just go by HR?
You don’t need a PM at all for race day, but using it on race day can assist with pacing, nutrition calculation, and will allow you to review your performance after the fact.
Yes it is worth it. You need it for training and racing. Could I train and race without it, sure. Will I ever do either if I have the choice, No…at least not until someone comes up with something better. HR is not remotely comparable as a tool.
Training with power does not automatically improve cycling ability. It is not an “install and go faster” tool. Use of the information can sharpen the picture and take out much of the guesswork, if you know how to interpret the data. Have you read the bible? http://www.velopress.com/cycling.php?id=213
Great minds think alike :)
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2008/03/pithy-power-proverbs.html
cool page, those guys are the “wattage celeb A list” personalities, I have not seen this before, but some good quotes there!
I think its mainly useful for posthoc analyis of races - esp. long ones. If you know your 1 hour power - then you can look at your IM or other race power and see if you are in the normal range. If you bonk on the run or fall apart - it helps narrow the reasons…its sooooo easy to ride too hard the first 1-2 hours of an IM.
For training - its fun to watch but I think RPE is fine. Heart rate is o.k. but if you’re like me - heart rate can vary a ton vs. RPE/pace depending on the day and from interval 1 to 10, mine changes a lot despite constant pace. Hard is hard anyway you look at it and you don’t need a PM to tell you that. It helps to tell you what easy is though - esp. at the start of an IM.
Anyway - I like having one and you do become a bit dependent on them once you start…but definitely not needed. Is it worth it? Depends on how much disposible cash you have.
Dave
One of my teammates poo-pooed PMs for the longest time. He was training by HR and claimed he was going hard enough. He was finally convinced to get one and the first thing he realized was that late in rides he wasn’t pushing as hard as he thought. Yes his HR was still “in the zone” but he found that his effort was decreasing. I.e., power was declining as the ride went on for the same HR. Essentially cardiac drift except HR was constant and power was changing. With the PM he forced himself to push harder to keep the average up later in rides. For him it was an eye opener and he has improved just that little bit more since training with power.
For myself, I’ve found that the PM has put me better in tune with my perceived effort. I’ve been training with power for 6 or so years now and have developed quite a knack to dial in an effort flying blind (not looking at the PM). That’s one of the benefits of a PM - it calibrates your perceived effort better than HR in my opinion. As an example, just take a look at http://james-p-smith.blogspot.com/2009/01/week-of-january-12.html That was an hour effort I did a few weeks ago where I paced myself with perceived effort. Pretty darn good pacing if I do say so…
About the only zones I’ve found acceptable for HR are recovery, endurance, and some tempo. Anything else, give me power or perceived effort.
On race day, go by perceived effort, not HR, if you don’t use power.
does a duck quack?
The PM is without a doubt THE MOST IMPORTANT TOOL that I own.
As a coach it is eternally frustrating to work with someone that does not have one… as i have no idea what they are really doing.
Thanks to all for the feedback, I got a good deal on a slightly used wireless PM laced up in a decent rim for training so now I am all in…bring on the powah…or at least some more numbers to obsess overduring training rides:>)
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does a duck quack?
The PM is without a doubt THE MOST IMPORTANT TOOL that I own.
As a coach it is eternally frustrating to work with someone that does not have one… as i have no idea what they are really doing.
I agree with that, although I would add that the knowledge and experience obtained from coaching with power has made my ability to coach sans-power more effective.
- Power becomes increasingly helpful the more intense a training sessions gets. It is quite hard to pace intervals above threshold well by HR I have found. Power lets you do them consistently week to week. If you do such training, it will be helpful.
Absolutely. If I were riding my 6x4min intervals last summer by HR and average speed I would have quit before seeing the dramatic real results (290W up to 375W in 2 months). And that’s because average speed on a hillclimb like that is highly dependent on the starting speed, any wind on that day and a wild variety of things. 4 weeks into the structured regimen I was down on speed but up 15% on power, with roughly constant max HR at the end and a similar recorded HR profile.
Racing by HR (after my PM died) seems to be about as effective, but only now that I know what HR corresponds to what watts as a general rule. If I’m riding at 175bpm I know that I am at FTP…not a good place to be on an IM course!!!
But the good point above is that the PM is only as useful as you make it. If you aren’t willing to monitor things and really analyze the data then don’t bother getting one…unless you just like blingy playthings. If you get it, use it. When I have the spare income I’ll be replacing my dead one…
I love both training and racing with power. Get a wheelbuilder.com cover for your new wheel, and you can race IM with the disc-cover. They are great, and only $60.
I’ll add a contrary thought … and I own and have used a SRM powermeter for over 4 years now. At first its a lot of fun to see all the data and it does give you a better idea of using steady power input versus bursts and coasting. Then it just becomes sort of an obsessive compulsive thing and a lot of data downloads and storage on your computer. I finally took it off because I wasn’t enjoying cycling as much … made it too mechanical for me. I haven’t used it for 6-8 months now and my cycling is unchanged in speed, but really is more enjoyable. I have days when I want to ride hard and days that I don’t feel like it. If you are one of those who needs a coach (I don’t) … it gives your coach a more direct attachment to your bicycling results. So … its a fun and expensive toy that helps you understand some things better … but then just sort of becomes unfun. But then … I’ve done a couple IM distance races without a watch and enjoyed them immensely and amazingly (for ST) my times were the same as usual at the end.
Knowing what I know now would I have spent the $$$ again … NO… and I can easily afford it.
Dave
I have been thinking along these lines of late. “Do I get a PM?” “Do I go without for a bit longer?” “Would a PM make me faster, sooner?” I also can be a bit of a numbers guy, so at the very least the downloads and analyzing would be great. And I would change some of my training to rely on a PM over my HR.
BUT…But, what I have a fear of is getting managed by my tools rather than listening to my body and myself during the races. I did my first IM last year, and found I was backing off too much on the bike. Now, was it fear of hitting the wall at mile 20 of the run? I am sure that was a big part of it. But as I stared down at the HR number flashing at me for the first 35-40 miles I kept telling myself to slow down, get in the right HR range or I’ll blow later. My “body” said I was fine, and I ignored it. My “mind” saw the HR number was high. Sure, I believe the PM would have given a more accurate number, but what this stuff all does was remove me from sensing how I was feeling.
I read with fascination about all the Team TBB stories, Brett stories, over the last year or so. One thing I picked up on was his reliance on watching his athletes, and having the athletes learn to monitor themselves without a host of tools (did I read these stories wrong?). No, I am not a TBB-caliber athlete, but I can take away these messages and try to incorporate them into my own training. If anything, I want to remove ALL the devices off the bike come race day and just feel how the race goes, feel how I am doing.
From my own coach over the last couple of years, “The race becomes a mental challenge for the most part. Crawl inside your head on race day and monitor, monitor, and then monitor your condition all day long. Use your experience with pacing and nutrition to make decisions all those hours you are out there.”
I’m going with this strategy again this year, and keeping some extra cash in the bank account. Hope it works out.
I’ll add a contrary thought … and I own and have used a SRM powermeter for over 4 years now. At first its a lot of fun to see all the data and it does give you a better idea of using steady power input versus bursts and coasting. Then it just becomes sort of an obsessive compulsive thing and a lot of data downloads and storage on your computer. I finally took it off because I wasn’t enjoying cycling as much … made it too mechanical for me. I haven’t used it for 6-8 months now and my cycling is unchanged in speed, but really is more enjoyable. I have days when I want to ride hard and days that I don’t feel like it. If you are one of those who needs a coach (I don’t) … it gives your coach a more direct attachment to your bicycling results. So … its a fun and expensive toy that helps you understand some things better … but then just sort of becomes unfun. But then … I’ve done a couple IM distance races without a watch and enjoyed them immensely and amazingly (for ST) my times were the same as usual at the end. Knowing what I know now would I have spent the $$$ again … NO… and I can easily afford it.
Dave
That’s interesting…because I’ve found my experience to be just the opposite. I’ve found training with a PM, along with some sort of “impulse-response” training log (e.g. WKO+'s “Performance Manager”, or RaceDay) to be fairly liberating.
When I first got a power meter, being the uber-geek engineer, yes I pored over all the data and geeked out over everything to the point that I was basically “micromanaging” my training. I think that’s something that turns off a lot of people, especially less technically oriented folks…and to be honest, after the initial “gee whiz” factor, it gets a bit boring. But, once the idea of the “impulse-response” training models became available and I incorporated that into my training, I found that after awhile I would just “go out and ride” and make sure I was getting the right mix of efforts for the events I had coming up, and let the model track how well my training load was progressing (or not). This also allowed for “on the fly” adjustments to my training plans due to unforseen interruptions (i.e. “life”). I now know fairly well what some of my typical rides accomplish from a training load standpoint, and can just go do them and download the data later.
Just my 2 centavos…
This will be my second full year training with power, and it’s helped be greatly. The nice thing about power when training is that it is a fairly accurate measurement of the work you are doing at that instant. It doesnt care that its hot out (but may care if its cold), if you’re slightly dehydrated, or clenching your shoulders like heart rate will. While I’m training with power I’m working a lot harder, and am getting more benefit.
The first step should be a field test to determine your threshold, then a coach or good book to help you determine what your interval zones/periodicity should be. Test should be repeated periodically to make sure that you are training in the proper zones on going. I don’t race with the PT, but instead use heart rate. Reason being is that it’s fine if I crack in training doing intervals but I don’t want to blow up in a race due to temp etc. My PT is laced into an open pro, I may buy a wheel cover this year.