Training Peaks Training Plans - increasing wattage

Triathlon Forum
1

I’m a power newbie. I’ve got my Powertap set up and ready to get to work on increasing my power. Was thinking of purchasing one of the training plans from Training Peaks which are 8 weeks in length, working to increase threshold wattage.

These plans are put together for cycling only. Has anyone ever done this and switched out some of the cycling days for running/swimming, but keeping the “quality” power workouts? It seems that would work. Am I wrong??

I really want to work in a methodical, structured way on increasing my wattage, but maintain running/swimming, and it seems this would be a good way to go.

Thoughts?? Thanks!

2

Sounds like something I would commit myself to. If it works? I don’t know. But I think it sounds like a plan and thats sometimes all you need.

3

I haven’t seen the plans, but ignorance has never stopped me from commenting before…

An 8 week plan to increase power at threshold in cycling is most likely going to consist of doing L4 intervals (some variant of 2x20s: hard intervals), and perhaps a short period of L5 (3-8 minute really hard intervals). You would be hard pressed to do more than 2-3 sessions of these a week, so any other cycling workouts would have to be recovery-type rides. As long as you don’t drop those sessions, and manage to be reasonably recovered (and not stiff and sore from the last bike session or other workout), you should be able to do it.

4

I haven’t seen the plans, but ignorance has never stopped me from commenting before…

An 8 week plan to increase power at threshold in cycling is most likely going to consist of doing L4 intervals (some variant of 2x20s: hard intervals), and perhaps a short period of L5 (3-8 minute really hard intervals). You would be hard pressed to do more than 2-3 sessions of these a week, so any other cycling workouts would have to be recovery-type rides. As long as you don’t drop those sessions, and manage to be reasonably recovered (and not stiff and sore from the last bike session or other workout), you should be able to do it.

So, let’s see - 2 “quality” workouts a week would move me toward my goal of increased power? Or would 3 be better? This feels like a dumb question, but . . . I’m asking it anyway. OR should it be 2 “quality” workouts and 1 longer aerobic paced ride? Seems like I should keep an easier ride in there, too, for base??? Need to fit in 3 runs and 2 swims somewhere. Oh, then there’s weight training. Argh - is this really the “off season.”

5

I think you are talking about the plans from Hunter? If so, they are pretty good and well thought. Hunter is one of the “godfathers” of training with power and has coached a lot of successful athletes. The only problem with the program is there is no feedback or adjusting. You follow the workouts as best you can and you should see improvement. As a multisport athlete, you may modify it a bit and reduce the volume a tad to incorporate some running and swimming.

I know Rich Strauss has some winter programs up too if you want the whole enchilada.

If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail or PM (no I am not affliiated with TP)

Kurt

6

OR should it be 2 “quality” workouts and 1 longer aerobic paced ride? Seems like I should keep an easier ride in there, too, for base???

2 is plenty for a triathlete. The third ride shouldn’t be “easy” – it should be “steady.” Easy rides don’t make you more fit.

And remember, it’s all “base.” Base is not some separate form of fitness. The quality workouts increase your base, along with everything else you do, so long as it’s not “easy.”

7

I haven’t seen the plans, but ignorance has never stopped me from commenting before…

An 8 week plan to increase power at threshold in cycling is most likely going to consist of doing L4 intervals (some variant of 2x20s: hard intervals), and perhaps a short period of L5 (3-8 minute really hard intervals). You would be hard pressed to do more than 2-3 sessions of these a week, so any other cycling workouts would have to be recovery-type rides. As long as you don’t drop those sessions, and manage to be reasonably recovered (and not stiff and sore from the last bike session or other workout), you should be able to do it.

So, let’s see - 2 “quality” workouts a week would move me toward my goal of increased power? Or would 3 be better? This feels like a dumb question, but . . . I’m asking it anyway. OR should it be 2 “quality” workouts and 1 longer aerobic paced ride? Seems like I should keep an easier ride in there, too, for base??? Need to fit in 3 runs and 2 swims somewhere. Oh, then there’s weight training. Argh - is this really the “off season.”

(again, speaking from ignorance of CP’s plans, but I’ve read a lot on power training)

The idea is that doing 2-3 L4 workouts a week, increasing about 5W every other week for 8-10 weeks will add some 20-30W to your threshold power. That’s a substantial amount (a couple of MPH for beginners). It’s easier for beginners, and harder for experienced riders. If you can do them every other day, and progress, go for it. More is not always better, if you aren’t recovered.

Here’s a description of L4 workouts (from http://www.cyclingpeaks.com/levels.html):

“Just below to just above TT effort, taking into account duration, current fitness, environmental conditions, etc. Essentially continuous sensation of moderate or even greater leg effort/fatigue. Continuous conversation difficult at best, due to depth/frequency of breathing. Effort sufficiently high that sustained exercise at this level is mentally very taxing - therefore typically performed in training as multiple ‘repeats’, ‘modules’, or ‘blocks’ of 10-30 min duration. Consecutive days of training at level 4 possible, but such workouts generally only performed when sufficiently rested/recovered from prior training so as to be able to maintain intensity.”

Unless you are doing a ton of squats, skip the weights.

8

Ash, you should post your link up there…some well written and thought out articles on your site!

BTW, off subject. If you can find a copy of Master Skier magazine (for the nordic dorks) there is a good article by Dick Taylor on strength training and the misconceptions about it in this months copy.

kurt

9

Unless you are doing a ton of squats, skip the weights.

Wow! Really? Skip lower body weights altogether when training power? (of course, I’ve been prescribed hamstring curls by my PT, so will have to do those). That would be cool from a time standpoint, as long as I’m not shooting myself in the foot in some way.

Also, as for “steady” vs. “easy” - would it be recommended to keep this in my aerobic HR zone, or step up to an “endurance aerobic” zone?

Thanks - this is all VERY helpful.

10

Unless you are doing a ton of squats, skip the weights.

Wow! Really? Skip lower body weights altogether when training power? (of course, I’ve been prescribed hamstring curls by my PT, so will have to do those). That would be cool from a time standpoint, as long as I’m not shooting myself in the foot in some way.

Also, as for “steady” vs. “easy” - would it be recommended to keep this in my aerobic HR zone, or step up to an “endurance aerobic” zone?

Thanks - this is all VERY helpful.

Oh, lord. Do a search on weight lifting on this forum, and get a really big cup of coffee.

(I was being sarcastic about the squats, but not the weightlifting)

IMHO, anything below L3 (I guess what you call “endurance aerobic”) really won’t increase your fitness, although it may have other benefits (mental prep for riding long, acclimation to aero position, etc.).

11

I think Ashburn’s “steady” comment would be similar to CP’s “Endurance” or “Tempo” zones which are less than “Threshold (40K TT max effort)”.

With Hunter’s plans, you will likely have to back off a little should you add running and swimming. This could mean skipping recovery rides, shortening the duration of others, or leaving off a few reps from the prescribed intervals. Keep in mind that it all depends on how well you recover and what you are trying to achieve in the other sports. Plus, is this your “off season” or is this your “Base” or “Build” … I think all of that has influence.

I agree that you could skip lower leg weights while following the program.

-jeff

12

I think Ashburn’s “steady” comment would be similar to CP’s “Endurance” or “Tempo” zones which are less than “Threshold (40K TT max effort)”.

I agree that you could skip lower leg weights while following the program.

-jeff

I think of steady the way that Lydiard, Hellemans and Gordo describe it – short of “tempo”, but above easy. The sort of pace that seems easy for about 2 hours, but by 3 hours you’re starting to realize that you’ve been working at a decent clip. The really fit folks can do IMs at that effort (I can’t). 3 hours of steady and I feel like I had a good workout. 5 hours of steady and I need a nap and an easy day.

And yes, most certainly – skip the weights if they take time away from swimmin’ and bikin’ and runnin’. They don’t do any good other than for general health maintenance. You won’t get any faster.

Some articles here that cover some of this:

http://www.masterstriathlete.com/Articles.html

It’s a work in progress; more to come.

13

Define it as a percentage of something so that we can have an idea.

14

I think of steady the way that Lydiard, Hellemans and Gordo describe it – short of “tempo”, but above easy. The sort of pace that seems easy for about 2 hours, but by 3 hours you’re starting to realize that you’ve been working at a decent clip.

Yeah, that would be top of “Endurance (Zone 2)” or bottom of “Tempo (Zone 3)” which is why I listed both. Say, 70-85% of threshold (40K TT max power). I don’t get overly hung up on the exact wattage. If you are riding longer, touch the low end. If you are riding shorter, touch the higher end.

-jeff

15

IMHO, anything below L3 (I guess what you call “endurance aerobic”) really won’t increase your fitness

L3??? That “NO-MAN’S LAND”!!! :wink:

ot

16

If you want to be a cyclist then Hunters plans are good. If you want to be a triathlete then get Rich Strauss plan.

Why pay for something you have to modify. From your post it sounds like you dont have a lot of experience so how would you know what aspects of Hunters plan to modify. If you are getting a coach (or plan) then get one, not a combination of someone elses plan and your own.

17

70-85% is a BIG ballpark, why bother with a powermeter, even a HRM.

The intensity that Ashburn mentioned is very close to 85% of a one-hour threshold, but I do want confirmation from him :wink:

18

If you want to be a cyclist then Hunters plans are good. If you want to be a triathlete then get Rich Strauss plan.

Why pay for something you have to modify. From your post it sounds like you dont have a lot of experience so how would you know what aspects of Hunters plan to modify. If you are getting a coach (or plan) then get one, not a combination of someone elses plan and your own.

Well, I don’t have a lot of experience with a powermeter, no. 2006 will be my 5th tri season.

As for Rich Strauss’ plans, none of them fit my goals, either, as I’m not doing a half or full IM next season. As for my coach, I am on hiatus until late December - I CANNOT afford my coach AND heating my house for the winter, with natural gas prices as they are, etc.

What I AM trying to do by cutting/pasting a bit is a cycling emphasis/single sport focus period for the next 8 weeks, before going back to a full schedule at the beginning of January. My goal is to increase my power.

19

At 85% for three hours I’m pretty toasty. I’m also ready to hoist a beer to a damn fine workout in the books.

20

70-85% is a BIG ballpark, why bother with a powermeter, even a HRM.

The intensity that Ashburn mentioned is very close to 85% of a one-hour threshold, but I do want confirmation from him :wink:

Yes. I have no business trying to put words in his mouth.

-jeffh