Hey guys, I have been using tp for a while to basically log data. Only now have I really looked at some of the terminology of training stress etc.
One thing that has jumped out at me is (tsb). I noticed I’m -225. I’m feeling a bit fatigued but wanted to push through to taper for a 70.3 on the 8th of November. I understand you tend to perform better with a slightly positive Tsb…
I still have a few weeks until the half, is -225 a massive hole? Should I taper a bit earlier than the planned 7 days or will that be enough to shed the fatigue? I am feeling pretty crap and not training too well and have the tail end of the cold, but I’m wary of backing off this far out. Does tsb claw back into positive territory quickly or slowly?
Sorry just working all this out
Fwiw my ctl is 493, 713 atl
Should I cut my losses and get a few rest days in despite a taper coming up?
You know what? I have no idea, but here’s my data point. I trained for IM Muskoka this summer. My TSB (SBR) never went lower than about -50 during training and I was about +30 on raceday. I don’t feel that my training was very effective and I think the TWB should have been driven lower. However I felt great until GI problems on the run, which I don’t blame on prep.
I think these numbers depend tremendously on your zones. If you don’t have them set realistically (and maybe I didn’t), then the numbers may be worthless. CTL as high as you say sounds bananas. The Performance Management Chart can be set to project into the future - if you have access to that (might be premium only) you can see if TSB will go positive with even two weeks on the couch.
Maybe someone coachier has better wisdom. My intuition suggests that this isn’t the time (two weeks out) to start paying a lot of attention.
Cheers!
I’d also add that I watch the PMC for SBR separately as well as altogether. I don’t really make training decisions based on the PMC, but rather watch it in the hopes that I will learn something for future cycles. I can imagine using it more tactically one day.
Are you sure your ftp and zones are right?
A 400ctl implies something like averaging 4hr per day at 100% threshold, every day for the last 42 daysdays.
700 is even more. If you look at top kona folks, who have everything set correctly ctl will get up to 130 maybe a little higher.
A tsb of -225 just jumps out at something being wrong with the data.
y must ur have intensity factors way over 1 or even 2 most of the time
based on that, data must be wrong then. 4hr day at an IF over 1 and i would be dead lol.
I have my power bike zones set. Based of an FTP of 260, it is defaulted the zones and they look right. HR seems to be, but i never wear a monitor, at least not for a long time. It has taken data from quite some time ago. Run is a weird one- threshold of 18:45 min/km?..i mean zone 1 37:17-17:46min/km, not sure what thats about.
You can fix your zones (threshold for run= half marathon pace)
And let TP recalculate the last several months of tss, I believe (there’s a separate place for recalc
.
You can fix your zones (threshold for run= half marathon pace)
And let TP recalculate the last several months of tss, I believe (there’s a separate place for recalc
yep, changed the zones - bike was right on the money…entered swim as 1:40 per 100 (shitty swimmer) and run 4:15perkm threshold pace. Backfilled for start of August.
70.9CTL, 87.7ATL, TSB -6.7
im guessing this is more accurate, although i feel lousy for a lazy -6.7!!
A 400ctl implies something like averaging 4hr per day at 100% threshold, every day for the last 42 daysdays.
It’s worse than that, actually. CTL (and ATL) is (are) calculated as an exponentially-weighted average(s), with a default time constant of 42 d. It therefore takes ~3 mo for CTL to be ~90% “caught up.”
You need to recalculate your threshold speeds and apply these new figures to your last ~90 days of sessions.
Look at a recent example of a hard session in each discipline to get an idea of what your threshold paces are, then go to your PMC and click on the symbol in the top right hand corner that is three horizontal lines.
Once the menu comes up, click on the box towards the bottom right that says “recalculate TSS”. Input your true threshold paces and enter suitable dates in the date range. I would go with 24/07/15 to today.
You will get a message that says “recalculated TSS for workouts” (or something to that effect) and then your PMC should look more sensible.
ETA: Assuming that you’ve been improving throughout the last thee months, you could further improve the accuracy of this by entering slightly slower threshold paces for the first half of the three month block.
For example, if your threshold pace is 7:00/mi currently but you know that you’ve been getting faster, go back and recalculate just July and August with a thrashold pace of 7:15mi (or whatever).
Hey, I love looking at this stuff also but let me ask you a question? But aren’t you focusing too much on what these numbers are telling you and not what is most important. You’re body is telling you to slow down eg feeling sick, can’t train yet you worry about too much tapering. Back when I was a medical resident, someone once taught me that the opposite of good is better. Meaning that if you try to eke out that last bit you are going to make it worse. You’ve done the work, slow down, let yourself recover. You could always add some shorter time, harder intensity workouts. Just my .02
Looking past your upcoming race, you may find these articles by Joe Friel helpful.
I’ve just recently started using the TrainingPeaks PMC and have found them really useful in terms of general figures to be aiming for when it comes to TSB etc.
Hey guys, I have been using tp for a while to basically log data. Only now have I really looked at some of the terminology of training stress etc.
One thing that has jumped out at me is (tsb). I noticed I’m -225. I’m feeling a bit fatigued but wanted to push through to taper for a 70.3 on the 8th of November. I understand you tend to perform better with a slightly positive Tsb…
I still have a few weeks until the half, is -225 a massive hole? Should I taper a bit earlier than the planned 7 days or will that be enough to shed the fatigue? I am feeling pretty crap and not training too well and have the tail end of the cold, but I’m wary of backing off this far out. Does tsb claw back into positive territory quickly or slowly?
Sorry just working all this out
**Fwiw my ctl is 493, 713 atl **
Should I cut my losses and get a few rest days in despite a taper coming up?
Handy links thanks! Interesting he says +5 to -5 is basically a transitional zone and should be ‘passed through’ for race taper or
Recovering and getting back into training. Mine now is -6.7 tsb
But tomorrow it will be -17… I assume it takes into account today’s training load and its effect on you the following day.
Very interesting stuff! I’m sure our bodies
Don’t always comply with the numbers, we aren’t robots, but I
Would be curious to see
If racing with a
Positive tsb of 10+ is a fair indicator of performance and freshness
Looking past your upcoming race, you may find these articles by Joe Friel helpful.
I’ve just recently started using the TrainingPeaks PMC and have found them really useful in terms of general figures to be aiming for when it comes to TSB etc.
Before I developed the Performance Manager, I provided guidelines to low, moderate, etc., TSS. Now that the Performance Manager exists, however, it is better to look at TSB, as that reflects all of your prior workouts, not just a single one in isolation. I’d therefore recommend ignoring this article.
