Hi. I am pretty new in this game and first of all I want to improve my 40 km time on my tri bike (Giant trinity 2010).
I started training about 3 years ago and so far I have just gone as fast as I can every time doing these 40k.
I understand there might be bigger improvements if I do intervals and want to try this out.
Any suggestions to what kind of intervals is appreciated (intensity, duration ect.)
I do the 40k somewhere in the range 1h 5 min - 1h 20 min depending on wind conditions.
I also have a polar WIND power sensor installed in case thats relevant regarding interval setup.
Your 40k time is governed by your ability to ride at what is called the functional threshold power (FTP), defined loosely as the power you can sustain for a 60min effort. To improve FTP, Flanagan’s training plan is gold:
Day 1 = 2x20 with <5 min between @ ~95% of FTP
Day 2 = 1x20 @ 100-105% of FTP, essentially an all out TT effort
Day 3 = Rest or VERY EASY (ie 30-60 minutes at 50% of FTP)…all small ring.
Repeat, over, and over, and over. FTP is your current FTP, not your desired FTP. On day #2 insert VO2 work every other cycle with something like 5x5 @ 110-112% of FTP with 3-5 minutes rest.
2x20’s (two intervals of twenty minutes each, with 2-5 mins rest in between) is the bread-and-butter interval which you’ll see mentioned here numerous times. This recent thread has an extensive discussion about this kind of workout; also worth reading is Dave Luscan’s story of how he raised his power numbers and shaved almost 5’ off his 40k time.
I don’t know how accurate your Polar power sensor is for this, but even if it’s not 100% accurate you’ll still reap a large fraction of the benefits by riding around this range - which can also be estimated based on perceived effort, heart rate, speed, … .
Sure up the platform
Lift some heavy weights for a couple months. Focus on the deadlift and squat.Get the core ripped. Swiss ball, wobble board.1 leg drills on the bike trainer - but really focus. When the neuro-system starts getting slopping, stop for the day.Stretch for an hour every day.Full gas to failure is only for race day. Training is about training hard, but going to total failure during training is naff and will only mean you are too tired to do any meaningful work for a week or so. If tiredness gets you missing quality training sessions, then focus firstly on better recovery and warm-ups before decising whether the actual training is too much. For some it is not overtraining that is the problem, the problem is under-recovery.
The above gets results. But here’s a golden rule for when doing the intervals that others suggest.
If you crush your personal best while doing any rep during an intervals session, then immediately warm-down properly and go home. No more meaningful work can be done that day.
If after warming-up, you feel sluggish and are way off good interval times, then stop the session, warm-down and go home - you are not adequately recovered from the previous session. No more meaningful work can be done that day.
For some, a way to unlocking potential is to do longer warm-ups of 40 minutes or more before getting into the days training session.
I have had the Polar Wind Sensor PM for several years and I think it was a good tool. but not a great tool as far as training as I never had great consistent readings from it. I used my ComputerTrainer much for intervals. Good luck.
It depends on what scale you grade your efforts; for a possible definition, check Coggan’s “Power-based training levels” text (already linked by Bmanners above).
You’re looking at what he calls “Level 4”:
Just below to just above TT effort, taking into account duration, current fitness, environmental conditions, etc. Essentially continuous sensation of moderate or even greater leg effort/fatigue. Continuous conversation difficult at best, due to depth and frequency of breathing. Effort sufficiently high that continuous cycling at this level is mentally taxing – therefore typically performed in training as multiple ‘repeats,’ ‘modules,’ or ‘blocks’ of 15-30 minutes duration (totaling 30-60 minutes).
Recovery between efforts need be no longer than required for a mental break or to turn around. While consecutive days of training at Level 4 may be possible, such workouts should, in general, be performed only when sufficiently rested/recovered from prior training, so as to be able to maintain intensity.
I don’t have a power meter, what would perceived effort for this type of interval typically be?
20 minute interval should feel just shy of a 5k. You could talk in halting breaths, but wouldn’t want to make a speech. And that heavy breathing shouldn’t start till 'round five minutes in.
5 minute interval-first 2 minutes or so, you could talk. Last 2, conversation impossible.
To the OP, this is a pretty good guideline although the 2x20 set needs to be done at the proper intensity.
Also, if you’re targeting a 40k I’d think about one workout per week that focuses on getting comfortable sitting on the bike for that duration. Squirming around and having position fall apart when it gets grippy can result in a large time penalty. Something like 1x60 at 80% but holding form, which can be done within a longer ride.
Your 40k time is governed by your ability to ride at what is called the functional threshold power (FTP), defined loosely as the power you can sustain for a 60min effort. To improve FTP, Flanagan’s training plan is gold:
Day 1 = 2x20 with <5 min between @ ~95% of FTP
Day 2 = 1x20 @ 100-105% of FTP, essentially an all out TT effort
Day 3 = Rest or VERY EASY (ie 30-60 minutes at 50% of FTP)…all small ring.
Repeat, over, and over, and over. FTP is your current FTP, not your desired FTP. On day #2 insert VO2 work every other cycle with something like 5x5 @ 110-112% of FTP with 3-5 minutes rest.
2x20’s (two intervals of twenty minutes each, with 2-5 mins rest in between) is the bread-and-butter interval which you’ll see mentioned here numerous times. This recent thread has an extensive discussion about this kind of workout; also worth reading is Dave Luscan’s story of how he raised his power numbers and shaved almost 5’ off his 40k time.
I don’t know how accurate your Polar power sensor is for this, but even if it’s not 100% accurate you’ll still reap a large fraction of the benefits by riding around this range - which can also be estimated based on perceived effort, heart rate, speed, … .
Cheers,
+1, just read this thread again last night (all 14+ pages)
Also, Don’t want to reply to the original thread and start a zombie thread, but can this block be worked into traditional triathlon training. In other words, how can you fit in running and swimming?
In other words, how can you fit in running and swimming?
The answer to this question is what makes triathlon eclipse cycling by orders of magnitudes in the coaching business . It doesn’t take much to come up with a reasonable cycling training plan. Ride hard, ride lots, recover. On the other hand, the time constraints and the overall complexity of integrating three different sports makes developing triathlon training plans a whole different beast.
That said, I believe there has been a recent thread discussing the integration of Flanagan’s FTP recipe, BarryP’s running plan, and some swim advice which I do not recall, but given my single-sport focus, I did not read it attentively enough to recall what to search for to give you a link. But browse around and I’m sure you’ll find interesting advice.
Everybody sing it with me “one of these posts is not like the others, not like the others…”
Figure out which post is the outlier, pay attention to everyone else, and ignore that doofus.
Everyone has addressed the supply side so far. Do your research and pay attention to the demand side. 2 watts here, 2 watts there, and pretty soon we’re talking about some serious savings.
In other words, how can you fit in running and swimming?
The answer to this question is what makes triathlon eclipse cycling by orders of magnitudes in the coaching business . It doesn’t take much to come up with a reasonable cycling training plan. Ride hard, ride lots, recover. On the other hand, the time constraints and the overall complexity of integrating three different sports makes developing triathlon training plans a whole different beast.
That said, I believe there has been a recent thread discussing the integration of Flanagan’s FTP recipe, BarryP’s running plan, and some swim advice which I do not recall, but given my single-sport focus, I did not read it attentively enough to recall what to search for to give you a link. But browse around and I’m sure you’ll find interesting advice.
Or hire a good coach
Thanks! I agree and am really beginning to see the value in having a coach who spends his time answering these difficult questions.
For most folks a lot of the things you suggest will not have a positive impact on performance because they will take time away from actually training.
Not necessarily so Scott. You can stretch while watching TV with the family and friends. And the other stuff I mentioned is actually training.
I invested the time and energy to visit the Swiss Olympic Centre and Australian Institute of Sport. These guys as you know train some of the best ‘time-travellers’ in the world.
Sounds like the good guy has invested 3-years in trying to rev the engine higher. Time to build a bigger engine - develop the muscles and the neuro system to co-ordinate it.
That said, I believe there has been a recent thread discussing the integration of Flanagan’s FTP recipe, BarryP’s running plan, and some swim advice which I do not recall, but given my single-sport focus, I did not read it attentively enough to recall what to search for to give you a link. But browse around and I’m sure you’ll find interesting advice.
I must have missed this one. Do you recall the title?
This one is not the one I meant, but given it also comes from Flanagan, it’s probably not too far off:
20hrs+/week people, what’s your running volume?
Now, and running slightly astray to the original topic of this thread, I think there’s an interesting thought from Fleck:
Take two non-triathletes with very limited endurance fitness. Triathlete A starts in on a total balanced swim/bike/run training program from the get-go and sticks to it. Triathlete B starts off with total immersion in each of the 3 sports for 6 month blocks of time - so 6 months of swimming, 6 months of cycling and then 6 months or running, or what ever order you like. Their focus for each of those 6 months is that sport.They can do a limited amount of the other 2 if they have time/energy. Then for 6 months shifts back to a balanced training program.
Who wins the Olympic Triathlon at 2 years?
(the whole post can be found in the middle of the QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming thread)
This is simply taking the idea of a “swim-focused week”, “run-focused week”, etc, to the extreme. However, I suppose that even in this case, adding a 45 min run once a week, or a one hour swim once a week, shouldn’t derail the plan at all, while enabling you to “keep in touch” with the other sports. If that is really a sensible approach for your development as a triathlete, in the long run, is something I’ll leave for the real multisport folk to chime in.
wait what? is he training to race his bike or make sure his legs look toned for the beach?
Lift some heavy weights for a couple months. Focus on the deadlift and squat. Get the core ripped. Swiss ball, wobble board. 1 leg drills on the bike trainer - but really focus. When the neuro-system starts getting slopping, stop for the day. Stretch for an hour every day.
. It doesn’t take much to come up with a reasonable cycling training plan. Ride hard, ride lots, recover. On the other hand, the time constraints and the overall complexity of integrating three different sports makes developing triathlon training plans a whole different beast.