I’m thinking hard about getting into track racing, for TT events, Kilo, individual pursuit, etc. for SoCal racing (Carson, San Diego, Encino)
Building up a Track TT bike, but need some help on gear selection.
For regular TT I use a 54/42 (Roto Cranks) and 12/23 cassete on the road.
Was thinking of using a 54 (Rotor Cranks) front for the track, single ring of course, but not sure which size rear cog(s) I would need.
Can anyone help out a newbie!
Thanks
Gary
might want to consider using that 42 up front instead, paired up with mabe a 15, learn to ride that first, then go from there. and ditch the rotor cranks based on your own statements about cadence.
I’m assuming 700c wheels, correct?
You might want to use a slightly different gear for the pursuit and kilo…those two events are quite different in their demands, IMHO.
Gear selection partly depends on your “range” of cadence…you can obviously use a larger gear so cadence is a bit lower at “race speed”, but acceleration from the start may suffer. It’s a trade-off, and it’s why I suggest you take your road TT bike to the velodrome on an “open” day (some tracks allow road bikes at certain days/times), and play with your gearing…don’t forget to NOT shift.
Based on what you’re written about your TT PR’s, I’d say 54x16 for the kilo…but that’s a complete WAG. Track cogs aren’t expensive, get 14-15-16-17…probably cost about the same as a road cassette. Just make sure they’re the 3/32 type, and not the 1/8.
I don’t ride pursuits…the kilometer (killermeter) is much more fun to ride. And if you do get into it…practice your starts.
Don’t know if you’d be able to ride a Rotor Crank on a fixed gear…pedaling forward might not be a problem, but what about back-pedaling to slow down?
Just my $.02…make sure you practice your starts.
Dave “go fast, turn left”
PS: don’t forget to practice your starts
Good on you Gary. Track is painful but fun. Get some rollers and learn to get those rpm’s way way up there.
Fixedgearfever.com is a pretty good website to start. As strange as it might seem I have found trackies to be more helpful than tri or roadies on getting new fish into the sport. The racing is brutal, but friendly post.
Trackies learn to talk in gear inches instead of teeth. Depending on the track ,event, and you, gears vary a lot with 48/14 as the gold standard.
Most suggestions seem to be to pick a number and ride it for a long time then move up or down a point or two. I personally like the 15 cog as my starting point moving the front chainring around a bit. A one tooth cog change in the back is huge on the track. I would buy a used steel frame to start and if you like it move up.
Most tracks have rent bikes and beginner classes. Do not go to play on the track if you do not know the rules first. Bad things can happen.
Hope you have fun and have fun too. G
the Rotors are essential.
if you want to be a good track rider, you have to be able to have a pretty explosive start, which isn’t helped by a large gear. You also have to mantain your acceleration and stay on top of the gear, especially for the kilo, or you will hurt yourself. This need for a low enough gear to accelerate, but a big enough gear to mantain speed, means you’ll be spinning about 200 rpm in the heat of your race, and you can’t just all of the sudden stop or slow down, if you try to you will hurt yourself.
Some problems with rotor’s and the above, based on your own postings
Rotors are for mashers, and work best around 90rpm?
Issues with standing on rotors and location of “dead spot”?
stiffness?
strength?
I have trouble believing that there is a dead spot when spinning all out on a track bike, and the last thing your gonna want at 200rpm is something that accelerates the crank thru 12 o clock
You’ll need to learn to pedal, and find your optimum range. The Kilo will most certainly require the most work if you are going to be competitive.
The track you are riding on largely determines the gear selection, as does the surface, and the wind (if outdoors). The gear choice is not a stab in the dark and riders will may have a 46x14, a 53x16, 50x15, and 47x14 as possible gear options. Each of these are nearly the same, but might be selected based on the conditions described above. I’ve been racing on the track for some time and have had huge gains in time this year from specific training rather than just “riding hard” in both the kilo and pursuit.
The biggest gains came in the kilo where I went from the “traditional” 48x14 to a 45tx15 and shaved 4 seconds from my PR. 4 seconds is like an hour saved in an IM.
Feel free to email me at d_koesel@hotmail.com if you have any questions, check out:
http://www.fixedgearfever.com/downloads/PursuitTimesAdvanced.xls
for some help on gear selection in the pursuit, for help in the Kilo, just start running a cheese grater over sunburned skin, the kilo is like that, but it hurts more and lasts longer.
-SD
Ben, I have always maintained about 80-90 RPM’s pre and with Rotor, the cadence issue is for riders over 100 RPM’s, in some cases
We have a world class track racer on them right now testing them out (just back from Athens), so I will get some first hand feedback on this
.
Thanks SD
I have the track TT frame/fork, and all parts minus the rear wheel and cogs, still need some aerobars and some DA pedals
Looking at the Vision base/clipons to get the job done
.
I practice rapid spinning on nearly every ride I do for at least a couple bursts. I can do 20-30 second bursts at about 145rpm on my RC’s, which is about 15-20rpm higher than I could do 4-5 weeks ago. I doubt I could ever approach 200rpm though like somebody mentioned is necessary. That 145rpm probably is equivalent to another 10% faster for the upstroke, which puts me in the 160rpm range on regular cranks, and of course 10% slower for the downstroke. 200rpm though? Is that a number just being thrown around or is that legit? Gary, how much less time is spent on the upstroke when using the RC’s, surely it’s not exactly 10% like the number I threw out there.
I found a standard 50/15 was the best kilo gear for me. I rode kilo and pursuit, and used a 49/15 for the pursuit, 50/15 for the kilo. Another post said practice the start, and they are 100% correct. You may try a smaller gear to get the start figured out. At Trexlertown, just like any 333m track, I would be out of the saddle until the end of the back straight, prior to the turn. My coach taught me to get all the speed I could get before this point, and that was the priority for the training with the start. It is a matter of finding your ideal cadence and how long you can endure with it. You may be able to accelerate better with a small gear, but can you achieve a sufficient top end? You have to experiment to sort this out. Good Luck!
the more i think about this, the more i realize, there are no deadspots when anyone of decent skill is pedaling at any kind of speed on a fixed gear bike.
Becuase the rear wheel is directly driven, then any dead spots in the revolution of the crank would be obvious in the form of continuous acceleration and decelerations and obvious choppiness in the riders form and speed.
jmwiley; the only way to go faster on the track is to up your rpms, the kilo and persuit are slightly less of a spin fest then the sprint races, but 200rpm is pretty common on the track. if it’s leg speed you want, ditch the rotors and do 3 sets of a dozen 30 sec. downhill sprints in your 39x21, you’ll see marked improvements in your leg speed.
this is starting to bug me a bit.
here you said this:
“I don’t think very many Pro road racers will be using Rotor Cranks anytime in the near future. What we have found is that some pro cyclists (not all!) have difficulty adapting to the pedaling requirements that Rotors have, it is too much for them to just push down and not think about spinning. Also, they tend to want immediate results. High cadence pedaling (100+ RPM) also does not work well. So, to be perfectly honest, I would not reccomend them to Lance, unless he was open minded, understood how they worked, changed his fast pedaling, and would give them a chance to work.”
But now, you are saying:
“the cadence issue is for riders over 100 RPM’s, in some cases”
So which is it? you aren’t being very clear.
If you think lance spins, you have no idea what you’re getting into on the track. If pro roadies couldn’t adapt, then trackies sure as hell aren’t gonna want to “just push down and not think about spinning.” I can respect that rotorcranks is a hardworking company with limited resources, but before you put any of those resources into track cranks, I think you need to re-evaluate what exactly the company stance on rotors and rpm’s is.
I wouldn’t use a vision base bar for a Kilo start, you need super stiff, so anything in the lightweight category might not do the job.
Are you using 170mm Rotors?
-SD
I am using 175mm Rotors, are shorter better, like 172.5? I am 6’
Thanks
Ben, the reason I say SOME not ALL is because the riders in the Vuelta right now who are using Rotor Cranks for TT, as well as all of our pro triathletes, have been able to understand how they work. It is rider dependant. Some high spinners can adapt, some do not.
There is no company policy on this, merely what I see. These are my comments. I could say they work for everybody, but then my goal here is to have a rider be satisfied and know how the system works.
I have no idea how they work on the track, maybe they are great! I will find out.
Anytime the cranks are at 6 and 12 o’clock, there is a power void, and a dead point. Track cranks are not excluded.
I will report back.
I guess I will start with a 54/16 and see how that feels.
Why do ALL track riders spin so fast, 200 RPM, is this a correct statement for all track riders? I really do not know.
Thanks
One of the best slightly OT thread in a long time. The reason trackies ride with such a high rpm is that they only have one gear. It has to be low enough to get a fast start, which means it is also so low that at the high end the rpms will be way high at the peak of the effort…
That is the whole trick in gear selection. If you notice there is a theme to the experienced trackies so far. All the gear numbers 46/14, 53/16,50/15, and 48/14 are within about 5 gear points. One cog on your tt rig on the 54 ring is 10 points. One tooth gear change is huge in the rear on the track.
There is no way a guy will win a kilo or pursuit race in a gear so large as to turn “only” 120=130 rpms. They would be so far behind on the first 30 seconds of the race they would probably get caught in the pursuit on a short track.
I also wonder if the Rotor Cranks are built to withstand the fixed gear breaking forces of the leg drag to slowdown? G
Gary, on a track bike, you do not need any mechanical assistance to move the pedals out of your alleged power viod (which you have yet to prove actually exists on a track bike, or even a coast equiped bike, but i’ll entertain the idea).
The reason you don’t need any mechanical assistance is because the fixed gear provides it. The cranks are already being helped through your alleged voids.
You still are not being at all clear about the pro athletes who use rotorcranks. So i will see if i can coax it out of you:
*Who are they
*Exactly which races/stages are they being used in
*What exactly is the riders average rpm’s in the races they use them in
*What exactly was the riders average rpm in the races prior to using them
*Of all the athletes that use rotors, who would you consider to be a high spinner, and what is there average rpm.
Running some quick calcs, your 54x16 will require an average cadence of 131 if you wish to average 35mph for your pursuit, which means you will be seeing atleast 150rpm at some point in your race, in order to make up for your start. Obviously your rpm will have to go up even more if you want to go faster. I’m sick of telling you, so i’ll let you find out how realistic i am when i toss around my 200rpm.
Remember back in the day, all those rambling post you had about cervelo, and how aero “this and that” was bull and they had no real world proof, and how your “specialized s works” was just as good. It may be hard for you becuase you have a tendency to delete a lot of your old post, but think back real hard. Well, so far, cervelo has provided a lot more proof about there claims than you have about yours.
I can spin a high cadence on Rotors, and suppose I will start with 53/16 or 52/16 on 175mm cranks (Indurain used 180’s and 190 for his 2nd hour record attempt)
Thanks for the help! PS what is a good base bar to use for a TT setup?
Oh, a clarification: I rode 167.5’s on the track. I ended up using BMX cranks because they had that particular size. I think they are Pete’s Precision Products? Sugino Maxi’s maybe? I owned both brands at one point, so it could have been either one. I rode Cinelli cowhorns when I first started, and when the aerobar revolution struck, I got a set of Scotts and put them on the cowhorns. The kilo was tough for me to get used to the aerobars and keep it on the black line. I practiced enough, and got pretty good with it, and my PR’s are both with aerobars. As far as the bike frame, I rode my Schwinn Madison. Top-o-the-line for $125, fork included (1985 dollars).
Also, this stuff about cadence? My coach had me warmup on the rollers at 125rpms. When I raced, my focus was on cadence. Mike McCarthy, a world pursuit champ, once said that maintaining cadence is priority number one. It is not like you can shift into a bigger gear. I started my training in a gear that I could spin, and attempted to progress to bigger gears over the season, while maintaining that cadence (100rpms). I have no idea what’s up with the rotor cranks. Not dissing them, I really have no idea.