When reading about Total Body Force Swimming (TBF Swimming) it would appear there is no thorough guide. Clever marketing from the TriSutto camp I suppose, don’t give up all the secrets.
So I am trying to piece together the fundamentals, I have come up with:
windmill the arms through the recovery action (like a cricket fast bowler)
point the hand out and enter thumb first
make the entry wide, in line with the shoulder (to avoid snaking in the water)
don’t worry about kicking too much, employ a 2 beat kick
don’t worry about keeping the head down, look at your hand entering the water before breathing
unilateral breathing suits most athletes best
Has anyone here been a student of TBF Swimming? Any guidance would be great.
There isn’t much info on the underwater component. I assume we are still going for the usual high elbow catch? And, I assume we are trying really accelerate through the underwater component to mirror the recovery arm speed?
Keen to hear from anyone that knows the technique or has any tips before I start windmilling up and down the pool like a madman!
I tried leading with the thumb first last week and felt it in my shoulder right away and didn’t try it again. That was a scary little pain.
He actual promotes thumb first entry!? That’s one of the main causes of swimmers shoulder, rotator cuff tendinitis. Puts massive amount of stress on the shoulder. Plus it can also encourage a cross over and swinging recovery, you don’t want either of those.
I used to have a wider entry. Swim coach friend advised me to tighten it up last year, almost to the point of biceps brushing the head. Seemed to help me get faster. Now Sutto says widen up?
I’m going to either hop in the DeLorean and start swimming competitively at 7 or stash some fins and a little motor in the lakes this summer. Stupid swimming.
I’m not going to even attempt to chime in on the do-don’ts of technique here, but I will add that after watching the Sutto videos of Spirig etc., I’m reassured that they have such high turnover and powerful pulls to maintain speed.
If you watch too many Sun Yang videos with his monster long arms, you start thinking that something’s wrong with you when you can’t stroke as slowly as he does and go remotely as fast.
Nicola Spirig looks exactly how fast I’d expect someone who’s not 6"4+ to swim in terms of turnover and cadence.
Coach the swimmer not the stroke --Swim Smooth…what works for some doesnt work for all…look at their video analysis of elite swimmers…you have choppy strokes, smooth strokes, arms swung to the side…windmill, classic etc…try it and see if it works for you if it doesn’t find what does work for you.
When reading about Total Body Force Swimming (TBF Swimming) it would appear there is no thorough guide. Clever marketing from the TriSutto camp I suppose, don’t give up all the secrets.
So I am trying to piece together the fundamentals, I have come up with:
windmill the arms through the recovery action (like a cricket fast bowler)
point the hand out and enter thumb first
make the entry wide, in line with the shoulder (to avoid snaking in the water)
don’t worry about kicking too much, employ a 2 beat kick
don’t worry about keeping the head down, look at your hand entering the water before breathing
unilateral breathing suits most athletes best
Has anyone here been a student of TBF Swimming? Any guidance would be great.
There isn’t much info on the underwater component. I assume we are still going for the usual high elbow catch? And, I assume we are trying really accelerate through the underwater component to mirror the recovery arm speed?
Keen to hear from anyone that knows the technique or has any tips before I start windmilling up and down the pool like a madman!
I think the first thing he would say is that you are over analysing! :-). From what I can work out Sutton prefers ‘do ers’ to ‘thinkers’.
You’ve missed the push past the hips in the last 1/3rd of the stroke. (several blogs on that.)
And I wouldn’t suggest windmilling up and down the pool as being your target. The paddles and PB approach promote a steady ‘lock, lever, recover’ rhythm that isn’t hurried.
Pushing past the hips is a waste of effort. Will just make your arms more tired for little gain. I thought people stopped emphasising that in early 90s? Unless it’s come back in?
The rear part of the stroke is the fastest you will ever be in the water.
There is no other part of the stroke where you will move faster through the water and you do it all with just triceps.
This is also the most streamlined part of the stroke.
Why would you want to drop this from your stroke?
I swear, I’ve been told both things: Hand in the water too long and to lengthen my stroke. So I tried to lengthen out the front and some coach offered I looked like I was pulling my arm out of my socket. Next coach says yeah, that’s a bit what you’re aiming for. All maddening contradictions. But my whole body position does feel longer when I slow down to execute the tricept push.
The thing about this windmilling conversation that confuses me, well a few things:
I guess this is just a drill to what - focus on shoulder twisting as a component of power to the stroke?
Because 2) A more caught-up style seems to help me keep my shoulders lower (possibly b/c I haven’t got the right core involvement to hold that position without using my arms as leverage ahead of my line’s fulcrum point).
This looks like the kind of way to swim to be sure no one shares a lane with you. Seems like a recipe for contact-city in an actual OWS race.
Pushing past the hips is a waste of effort. Will just make your arms more tired for little gain. I thought people stopped emphasising that in early 90s? Unless it’s come back in?
This is what Sutton says. - which is what the thread is about - rather than a debate on swim technique.
The rear part of the stroke is the fastest you will ever be in the water.
There is no other part of the stroke where you will move faster through the water and you do it all with just triceps.
This is also the most streamlined part of the stroke.
Why would you want to drop this from your stroke?
You are the fastest at that point because: (1) you just finished the most powerful part of your pull – the front portion. and, (2) you are in the most streamlined position within the stroke cycle. You are not “doing it all with just triceps”. The stroke should be ending, the hand skulling out of the water, and the arm preparing to recover as your hand reaches your hips. A swimmer shouldn’t be looking to achieve a tricep extensions workout back there.
Well actually, you just finished the middle part of the pull which is an inward sweep, so what are you going to do with your hand and arm from your belly button backwards?
thumb entering the water first creates a need for internal rotation of the arm and jams the head of the humerus into the shoulder joint… picture what cops do when they arrest someone … its a movement that immobilized the skeleton and sends emergency signals to the brain that make us ‘reactionary’ … which is why its so helpful when arresting someone.
So, I agree… coach the swimmer but some basic fundamentals of skeletal functionality are critical to everyone.