It would be nice if your company got its act together on this product. Two versions of the product and it still has major glitches that require work-arounds. Most companies get this sorted out before they release their products to the marketplace. Your product is expensive, I’ve purchased both versions and am unsatisfied with both. I would go elsewhere but my bike setup severely limits my options. Let us know when you release an un flawed version. You can even use me for beta testing- I’ve already done it twice but would rather not shell out more $.
Paperchase I’m going to disagree. There are some hiccups but there are other between the bar drink set ups which have been around for much longer and still don’t work as well as the Torhans. I personally think mine works very well. I also use a horizontal bottle on short races but on long course I need something that can be refilled on the go.
Did I hot glue the mast? Yes
Did I put felt on the mount to reduce any rattling? Yes
Did I cut one leaf of the inner baffle to expedite filling? Yes
Do I occasionally get a little splash? Yes
But is it aero? Yes
Can I refill on the fly? Yes
Does it splash less than many other between the bar bottles? Yes
Does the company show interest in improving the product based upon user feedback? Yes
Did they go out of the way to get me a bottle before a race? Yes
Do people eject bottles with behind the seat mounts? Yes
Do people get splashed with other refillable bottles? Yes
Do people complain about the aero properties of other hydration solutions? Yes
Are there other things that you bolt or otherwise attach to a bike that rattle? Yes
In my opinion the balance goes toward a positive experience with the product and the company. FYI I am not sponsored by the company. I am not affiliated in anyway. I just use a Torhans 20 and have for several long course events and several thousand miles of training.
Yeah, I would agree that the Torhans folks bend over backwards to listen to customers and correct issues if need be. And with their record of testing, improving, and just plain innovation so far, I think they’re gonna have some very interesting things coming down the pipeline.
Just got my torhan 20. Drove down some chip and seal with it on bike, bike behind car. Then parked got on bike and rode on more chip and seal . No problem with mast, had a very small amount of spilling so I took a big drink and that ended the spilling .
The only other aerodrink system I used was the Profile Design system - which caused me fewer problens than Torhans. It did spill a bit, but the spillage was about the same as TH. I didn’t have any other problems with the PD system.
With the Torhans Aero30, in addition to the spillage I have the following problems:
Annoyingly loud rattling noises
Straw mast problems
Major leakage while filling the bottle on the go.
And regarding the “excellent customer service”, it is unfortunate that we need any customer service at all on this product. Most products I buy - I never have to call the customer support line because their products are designed well and don’t cause me problems. Becaue of their design flaws, we have to call or emal them and, to me, its a big waste of time.
We can agree to disagree but you should check the number of people who have had problems with the Profile Design System. They have had a bottle on the market for years and the beta testing was on 100’s of previous consumers.
first generation and second generation bottles both giving me headaches. The “aero” mast that support the straw pops off the bottle any time I hit rough road. My plan is to super glue the thing to the bottle but anyone have another approach before I potentially ruin this bottle?
yes same problem…both 20 and 30. Super glued and will see how it goes.
I will have to try the glue on the mast but other then that I have not had issues with mine and I used it this weekend in NOLA. It might be different for me because I have been using the solid cap and taking it off to refill because of the slow filling with the other cover and inner thing. I might try your idea of cutting part of the baffle and use the other cover. But I did not have an issue with taking the cap off to refill and I did not get splashed.
Of course we test our products. However, I’ll be the first to admit that we put so much focus on the design of bottle to optimize aerodynamics, that the first Gen Aero 30 was not at all good with splash protection. We have tested our bottles in the wind tunnel and CFD more than anyother hydration company. I stand by and the fact that our products are the most aerodynamic way to carry fluids on the front cockpit of the bike. We not only tested, but proved this in both CFD and the wind tunnel.
With the Aero 20, we corrected a lot of these issues, and the bottle has very good splash protection. Most TorHans users are satisfied, but of course like any good company, we are not idle. I mentioned above, but here is what we are working on;
New ‘splash barriers.’ We have tested the first samples and they are a lot better than the current ‘splash funnels.’ Fill on the go bottles will go through both the top barrier and the splash barrier which is only recessed 2mm, and is stiffer, thicker and die cut. 30 days out on these and will work with all A20s and 2nd Gen A30s
Check out our FB page as we posted a pic of our 100% splash/spill proof, hard snapped, gasket sealed cover spring loaded fill on the go cover. We will post the pics of the internal workings of this once cleared by our IP attorney. I can tell you that this is awesome piece
As far as the aero mast goes, first yes, it makes a significant difference over a round straw as far as aerodynamics go. Like I mentioned before, it is design to come off in a rider crash, and…putting a small amount of silicone on the rear hole that goes over the bottle ‘peg’ will keep it there for good.
The next Gen bottles due out later this year will have the new spring loaded cover, and the aero mast collars will be barbed. This is for both the Aero 20 and 30. The Aero 30 may get some other tweaks as well. Also, you might see one of our pros use an entirely new bottle shape in Kona this year for a 2013 product.
Again, if you have issues we are more than happy to help out and resolve them.
According to this article from Lava magazine (Sept. 2011), a bottle mounted horizontally on aerobars is the most aerodynamically effective method of hydration. This was tested in the wind tunnel.
" Conclusion
So what did we learn from all of these tests? The big lesson was that a bottle mounted horizontally between your arms (but it must be between your arms, not too high or low) makes you faster—even faster than no bottle at all! That should probably be your first choice for regular drinking. The aerodynamics of this position combined with the fact that it is always in front of you reminding you to drink makes it a great choice.
Well aware of that article. However, they never tested our system. We have tested a bottle between the arms in a very fair and objective test. Our airfoil shaped systems will always be fast, no matter what the position, length or width of the aero bars.
A cylinder between the arms can be fast like the article and Cervelo mentioned. But it will not be as fast as ours in all set ups. They may sound bold, but we have done enough testing, other manufactures have tested our bottles, and even a well known coach tested his athletes using the chung method, to the point we’re we are very confident on making that assertion.
I hope Lava, Cervelo, Triathlete Mag tests our products in the near future.
Has your product ever been tested by an unbiased third party? Not sure if Lava magazine is exactly unbiased, but even though they did not test your product, their conclusion says that a horizontal bottle set up between the arms is faster than having no bottle at all, which is at odds with your claim.
Has your product ever been tested by an unbiased third party? Not sure if Lava magazine is exactly unbiased, but even though they did not test your product, their conclusion says that a horizontal bottle set up between the arms is faster than having no bottle at all, which is at odds with your claim.
Actually, yes our products have been tested by other frame manufactures, and they have told me their results are the same as ours. I have some of those results, but we are not going to publish 3rd party data, that is not fair for a number of reasons. But no, Lava or any other publication has not. Probably because our products are so new to the market.
I don’t dispute the fact that when a bottle is between the arms, perfectly horizontal, and narrow extensions, it can make the rider faster, and it did on the day Cervelo tested it this way on their DZ mannequin, which is where I believe Lava go their info. If an athlete likes this system then great.Use it. It is very cheap to do.
I do know for a fact, that if you do not ‘hide’ this bottle in this way (flat,narrow extensions, hands in front of the bottle, an airfoil shape (Aero 20/30) of equivalent volume will be faster than the cylinder shape of a bottle on all set ups.
Again, I hope this is tested by 3rd party media/blogsite in the near future. I will even send them the bottles for the test.
Did you do any testing of your bottle on bikes with non-aero headtubes? If so, care to share the results?
I would guess that it may actually improve the aerodynamics. However, alot probably depends on the length of the headtube and just how close you get the bottle to the headtube.
I stand by and the fact that our products are the most aerodynamic way to carry fluids on the front cockpit of the bike.
I don’t dispute the fact that when a bottle is between the arms, perfectly horizontal, and narrow extensions, it can make the rider faster, and it did on the day Cervelo tested it this way on their DZ mannequin, which is where I believe Lava go their info.
I stand by and the fact that our products are the most aerodynamic way to carry fluids on the front cockpit of the bike.
I don’t dispute the fact that when a bottle is between the arms, perfectly horizontal, and narrow extensions, it can make the rider faster, and it did on the day Cervelo tested it this way on their DZ mannequin, which is where I believe Lava go their info.
Nope. I believe we would have had similar or better results on the mannequin. They did not test it, and I’m just pointing out that I don’t dispute their results.
Tell you what, if you ever go to the wind tunnel yourself, or have a friend that is going, I’ll send you bottles to test. Fair enough?
Ok man, this will be my last post on this. Check out our aerodynamics section to see how we conducted our test. Also check back on our new website that will be launched in a week or so that will also have our CFD results.
To directly answer your question. No the only time our test showed no increase in drag, including a bottle between the arms, was our Aero 30 at 15 degrees yaw, it achieved a high side force (max lift) at this yaw.
Would our products have tested as well during Cervelo’s test? I think they would’ve, but that is only my opinion. We were not there, and they did not test our products.