It was interesting to see that World Tri Champ Tim Don took part in the Great Manchester run finishing 19th - There is often a question of how top triathletes compaire to top runners. The great Manchester run can help answer this = top World Class runner (Mciah Kogo) = 27:21 For a British all commers record for 10k. Top British distance runner = 28:07 (Mo Farah), World Triathlon champ (Tim Don) = 29:31. Top Kentish (county) Runner Mike Coleman = 30:07, Former team mate (only ever ran didn’t swim or bike) 33:58.
I think his is quite interesting and also shows how fast you need to be to win at Triathlon now.
My mate just got back from doing the duathlon world champs in Hungary (Tim Don is a some time duathlete too). He’s U23 and came 2nd last year but didn’t fare so well this time. Anway, the lead pack did the first 10k in 30.30 at U23 level - impressive…
Funnly enough I was in Hungary racing too - I think the Elite course was a little on the short side (16 or so guys under 29mins for the 10k) - though the pace and times were still impressive.
The AG course was extremly short - the winner of my AG run a sub 28min 10K! I think my bike split was sub 54mins including having to ride the last bit on a flat and struggling with cramp throughout - still I am not going to let on at home ;-).
That’s about right. I think to be a winner on the ITU circut, you need to be able to run a stand-alone 10K in the 29 - 30 minute range. That is “fast” but it’s barley at the national level for running in many countries.
From some feedback I got from the portuguese fellas racing, the course in Gyor was about 500 mts shorter for juniors and ~600 meters for elites/under23.
Third & fifth place elite male are 29’30 runners for 10k. Junior’s third place is a 15’30 runner for 5k.
To me those times seem in line. I don’t think theres any reason elite triathletes, and duathletes especially, shouldn’t be under 30 minutes for the 10k.
At the pointy end of the spear a few seconds are huge.
How many people have run a 26:30?
How many have run a 27:00?
A 27:30?
A 28:00? and so on. Giant pyramid graph results.
Road times are a tad questionable as some courses especially in tri/ du the courses aren’t certified distance a lot of the time. And some are point to point with an elevation loss. So it is hard to compare apples and oranges.
With all that said, the old school duathletes in the Desert Princess days ran a 30 min 10k rode like hell for a couple hours and got off and ran a 31 or 32. When I saw that done in person and I ran a 35, rode about as fast as them and ran a 47 on the back end, I hung up my spurs and hit the couch.
I think I could have trained forever and not ever gotten a high 32 min stand alone 10k. Those guys running sub 30 have a special gift, and my hat is off to all of them.
Agreed. Although I do believe guys like Ospaly or Noya can run close to 29’ for 10K but Carter would be in trouble to hold that (just an example). The thing is… there’s a bike-thing before the run and that counts a lot.
To me those times seem in line. I don’t think theres any reason elite triathletes, and duathletes especially, shouldn’t be under 30 minutes for the 10k.
I disagree slightly. The BEST runners of the elite triathletes can run 30 minutes for 10K. Most if the elites cannot.
Greg Watson, just before he won the world championship in the duathlon ran 14:51 in the 5000 at Penn Relays. That puts him at an equivalent of 31 minutes for a 10K. Admittedly, he’s a better cyclist than a runner, but still…he was a world champion and could not break 30 minutes.
Again, the BEST runners of the elites…but not all of the elites (or even most of the elites) are sub 10K runners.
Most of the ITU guys, especially in duathlon, are runners or come from a running background. I mean even in ITU tri it’s swim with the pack, ride in a draft, then run like hell. Isn’t it? How about the best ITU pro triathletes to the best non-drafting Olympic distance pro triathletes…how would they compare as runners?
My personal goal is a 34 min stand alone 10k and an under 2 hours Olympic distance tri, and though I could probably obtain elite credentials with these times, I never would, nor would I think I could remotely support myself or win an serious races as a ‘pro’. So how fast doyou need to run as a pro comes down to how fast you swim and bike. A very lage range of times for triathletes, but tightly clustered at the upper echelons of professional running.
I said I think they should be, or actually used a double negative and said shouldn’t not be, but I do believe that if these are top tier athletes they should be performing at a top tier level. Then again it’s easier for me to be a monday morning quarterback than it is for me to run a 30 or even 31 minute 10k.
I think we’ll see more guys like Shoemaker pushing the end of races faster and faster.
But isn’t this topic a little pointless. The best triathletes are in fact TRIathletes, and not runners. Comparing the running abilities of a triathlete to runners is only slightly more meaningful than comparing running times of top cyclists to top runners.
If the runners had the extra leg and upper body mass to power through the swim and bike, they would be slower runners. The runners would also be slower if they had to split their training and recovery time across three sports.
Something tells me if you could get the top runners to ride 40K, the sum of their run and bike times would be much slower than that of the triathletes, but this is also a pointless topic as we will never know.
I usually think about it like this: If the top runners (or any other athletes for that matter) could just walk into an ITU (or any other high end tri) and walk away with the $10K prize (I think that is what an ITU world cup pays), then they would do it. After all, if all they had to do was just show up and let their incredible athletic talent carry them easily through the race as though it were an easy workout, why not take home some cash? The reason is that they indeed cannot.
I said I think they should be, or actually used a double negative and said shouldn’t not be, but I do believe that if these are top tier athletes they should be performing at a top tier level. Then again it’s easier for me to be a monday morning quarterback than it is for me to run a 30 or even 31 minute 10k.
I think we’ll see more guys like Shoemaker pushing the end of races faster and faster.
As a runner I don’t consider 30 minutes top tier. NO triathletes are top tier runners. 28:15 is the A qualifying standard for the US Olympic Trials, and it takes in a field of 24 runners. 30 minutes is 16 seconds a mile slower…not really in the same league.
Elite triathletes aren’t elite because of how they run compared to runners. They are elite becasue of how they compare to other triathletes. Top 0.1% in ANY sport makes you elite…no matter what the speed is.
Something tells me if you could get the top runners to ride 40K, the sum of their run and bike times would be much slower than that of the triathletes, but this is also a pointless topic as we will never know.
Actually we do know because they have done this…and the runners got their asses kicked. Same has been done with elite cyclists.
Granted, neither the runners nore the cyclists did any significant training in the other events…
The course was definatley short at Gyor having spoken to a number of the Elite fields. Michelle Dillon said she hasn’t run anywhere near that quick for 10k for a number of years.
I think this is shown out in the race result posted - top runner = 2mins 10 quicker than one of the quickest triathlon runners.
However Tim was not far off the quickest UK runners times - which is probably an indication of the current state of uk distance running. Mo Farah will hopefully start to lead a rivival though he was over 28min in this race (1min 24 infront of Tim). I beleive Dan Robinson is one of the best current UK marthon runners having finished 9th at London this year in 2:14.14 and having won a bronze at the Commonwelaths and he clocked over 29mins at Manchester so I still think that Tim’s run was pretty useful.
I beleive when Motteram raced the Noosa tri he commented how triathlon training took away that topend speed, that kind of 5th gear you need to hang with the best runners. I think he comment how it made your legs a bit heaver / a little dead placing a limiter on run speed.
A coach told me that the mistake is comparing 10k to 10k times. It’s around and 1:50 race for OD, if you’re going to compare times, compare triathletes 10k to the last 10k of a 1/2 marathon. It’s a lot fairer comparison.
Actually duathlete and triathlete 10K times are either much faster or much slower than they should be…depending on which way they badly measured the course.
Greg told me in the same season he’s run 20:00 for a 5K and 14:00.