I’m guessing (but could be wrong) that this is made by Vittoria… or maybe Challenge. Any ideas, Tom?
If you zoom in on the photo you see some short little ridges on the side which should help with aero. Are they there specifically for aero purposes? Which way are these intended to orient relative to tire rotation?
A google search brought up absolutely nothing on this tire… but it looks like you’ve had them a good while. How did you score them so early?
Looks like a good tire… ie like a Vittoria Corsa but with a different tread compound and better aero. I’d want a smaller one for TTs though.
I hope Conti is putting in some tunnel time to come up with an optimal grooved or ridged edge for the SS and TT tires. It would be nice if the 23mm models had good aero properties.
I hope Conti is putting in some tunnel time to come up with an optimal grooved or ridged edge for the SS and TT tires. It would be nice if the 23mm models had good aero properties.
Did I miss something. Was there actually some results posted of the SS or TT in the wind tunnel?
SwissSide. There is good amount of data out showing that a largish, round, smooth treaded tire has poor high yaw aero. Tread on the sides can help a lot.
Oh, hell, my bad. I didn’t see the picture (it didn’t show up when I initially looked at this thread). I was thinking the S-Works Turbo 24c. Wrong tire.
SwissSide. There is good amount of data out showing that a largish, round, smooth treaded tire has poor high yaw aero. Tread on the sides can help a lot.
But what I can’t figure out is why someone just won’t test it. You won’t believe the number of people who I have run across that have both access and the desire and yet fail to test the tire. They will test a 4000s 20mm but as far as I can tell nobody has tested the SS 23mm. The 23mm SS is very different from 23mm TT. It is significantly narrower, and the TT has the rough edge surface. As shown earlier on the Attack, it tended to be pretty darn good at lower yaw range, and yes it started to get beat out on a real wide rim 303FC at 10-15, but if the SS is similar aero, we know its RR is going to test very well.
I’m guessing (but could be wrong) that this is made by Vittoria… or maybe Challenge. Any ideas, Tom?
Based on the construction and who they’ve used in the past, that would be my guess as well. They haven’t said (at least not to me).
If you zoom in on the photo you see some short little ridges on the side which should help with aero. Are they there specifically for aero purposes? Which way are these intended to orient relative to tire rotation?
I’m thinking that’s more of a side tread pattern than an (intentionally?) aero feature. It’s basically the same pattern they debuted on the S-Works Turbo last year. That said, I didn’t ask one way or the other. The tire is intended to be mounted with the label facing the the driveside of the bike (with it mounted at the valve stem, of course
A google search brought up absolutely nothing on this tire… but it looks like you’ve had them a good while. How did you score them so early?
Wolf Vorm Walde sent me a pair a few weeks ago to try. We’ve corresponded before on their tires and after the S-Works Turbo was released last year I had actually suggested that they needed to take that compound and mold a tread made from it and glue it on a cotton casing…just like the old S-Works Mondo Open (which was the lowest Crr tire on Al’s list for a LONG time). He had replied that I’d probably like something they had in development…and I guess he remembered If you’re basing how long I’ve had them by the wear on the label on the pic…well, that was actually after only 2 rides (one of which being a practice crit). That just goes to show how much fun they are to lean into a corner I suggested they may want to rethink the label placement…
Looks like a good tire… ie like a Vittoria Corsa but with a different tread compound and better aero. I’d want a smaller one for TTs though.
I’ve already suggested a 22C…however, I don’t hold any hope that it would be made. It just seems like the “market” isn’t interested in narrower these days. I didn’t mention in my blog, but they’re making a 26C to go along with the 24C. I haven’t had my hands on one of those yet though.
The SS23 and Attack are different in shape. The SS has a rounder profile and is ~.5mm wider, though it isn’t as tall or wide as the GP4000 23. And also missing the side grooves, I just don’t see it doing nearly as well as the Attack. But who knows.
The SS23 and Attack are different in shape. The SS has a rounder profile and is ~.5mm wider, though it isn’t as tall or wide as the GP4000 23. And also missing the side grooves, I just don’t see it doing nearly as well as the Attack. But who knows.
I think we are putting too much into the side grooves. As your picture itself states from the original swissside site, the reverse direction on the regular GP tire was better, so I think it is safe to assume that Conti isn’t putting these in for aero purposes by design. They may be an unintended consequence yes and it doesn’t mean a pattern couldn’t be developed with aero in mind. Also, fwiw, looking at the pictures the GPTT it looks like a terrible fit on their rim.
As for the 20mm GP4000s, I really don’t pay much attention to the 20mm. One athlete who is very very well known for his engineering background and a zipp rider as well said the 20mm tested very very well, but I would never use a GP4000s 20mm, its RR blows in my opinion. There are also other concerns I have with running a 20mm on wide-rim wheels that also make them less desirable to me. Multiple other Zipp athletes reiterate that same thing, 23mm GP4000s, but when I try to talk to them about it I always get the same story - ie. limited number of tires tested, none of the tires I would actually consider are in the tests. Based on the Swissside info, you would say the GP4000s is not as good aerowise as a plain old GP tire although I don’t know what the RR on the GP tire is.
The real point here is why people wouldn’t test arguably the fastest rolling tire that is out there. It is not only fast but consistently fast. If it turns out to be an aero dog then fine, but you come out ahead in RR. I have enough anecdotal evidence from a 20min 3-4 grade climb where I can climb at 23-28mph near 350-380 at 154 lbs to know that the SS 23mm is a very fast tire. In addition, I believe its on-road RR is even better relative to its peers given roller tests but obviously that is something harder to test in a controlled manner.
Hey Tom what’s your feeling on how durable the Turbo Cotton will be? Does this tire have an anti-puncture belt? (I think Specialized calls it “black-belt”)
Looks like they did something similar for Flanders w/ FMB (different tread pattern):
I would love to know how something like the Challenge Paris Roubaix rolls. Obviously not a TT tire, but it seems like the Challenge Triathlon/Forte is on par with the GP4000s. This is one of those tires I really WANT to be fast and they obviously make a decent casing. Not sure if they are beefed up for puncture protection and that slows them down though.
I think we are putting too much into the side grooves. As your picture itself states from the original swissside site, the reverse direction on the regular GP tire was better, so I think it is safe to assume that Conti isn’t putting these in for aero purposes by design.
I’m pretty certain the aero performance of the grooves is an accident (else they’d be on the SS and TT)… but they also seem to make a big difference for high yaw aero.
One athlete who is very very well known for his engineering background and a zipp rider as well said the 20mm tested very very well, but I would never use a GP4000s 20mm, its RR blows in my opinion. There are also other concerns I have with running a 20mm on wide-rim wheels that also make them less desirable to me.
I don’t care about the 20mm GP4000 either, but the 20mm SS has very good Crr, and it’s what I use for TTs on narrow rims. I’d probably still use it if I had wide rims though, because the TTs I do aren’t technical. There is evidence that the aero performance is best when using tires that are “too small” for the rims.
One thing a lot of people forget also, is that when a pro rides 23mm tubulars on his wide rims that is not like a 23mm clincher. When you increase the inner rim width the clincher tire gets wider, but a tubular doesn’t.
Hey Tom what’s your feeling on how durable the Turbo Cotton will be? Does this tire have an anti-puncture belt? (I think Specialized calls it “black-belt”)
According to the sidewall label (it’s probably hard to read in my pic) it’s got a Blackbelt puncture layer.
I assume it will be around the same durability as an equivalently constructed tire (i.e Vittoria, or Challenge, for example). In my riding, the rear suffered a small slice in the tread that didn’t go through the casing. I just super-glued the “flap” closed and it’s been fine so far…
SwissSide. There is good amount of data out showing that a largish, round, smooth treaded tire has poor high yaw aero. Tread on the sides can help a lot.
What’s up with that strange Y-axis…where the zero yaw values are -itive CxA and the higher yaw angles measure increasing +itive CxAs?
If you’re basing how long I’ve had them by the wear on the label on the pic…well, that was actually after only 2 rides (one of which being a practice crit). That just goes to show how much fun they are to lean into a corner 