To aero geeks: Upgrade on an old setup or wait for a modern bike

Triathlon Forum
1

HI guys,

I’m building a budget TT/Tri bike from an old Ridley Cheetah 2010 or 2011 frame and parts from the bin (mostly Sram Rival-Force-S500 2 X 10S and Rotor crankset, Profile Design round alloy bars, and deep profile wheels (borrowed rear disc and front 58mm) ).
The goal is to start riding a TT bike for the first time (yes, my first TT bike) and get better at it.
And then, go faster and faster…
Budget is always an issue.
So, I’m asking the ‘‘pros’’ from their experience: When the fitness or the rider’s fit isn’t the subject and we’re talking '‘tools’'only, what makes you go faster ? Is it relevant to put money on aero brakes such as TriRig, a modern aero cockpit, aero TT fork, on the old setup ?
Or the avg. speed diff. won’t be significant for an expense close to $1100-1200. (wich would take me probably 6 months to pile)?
Or I should just ride the thing, and wait for a more modern design when I get a deal in the next years to come ?

Louis :slight_smile:

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My vote, since budget is king, is build the bike rock bottom cheao and th n incrementally upgrade as you can afford it. Then, as you can afford it, upgrade your tools in this order.
Aero helmetTri suitAero brakes CockpitDeep wheelsCurrent frame

3

My vote, since budget is king, is build the bike rock bottom cheao and th n incrementally upgrade as you can afford it. Then, as you can afford it, upgrade your tools in this order.
**Bike fit/critique, that aids your selection of:**Aero helmetTri suitAero brakes CockpitDeep wheelsCurrent frame
Your body is the biggest source of drag. Make sure your position is optimised first. That will then drive your component selection, eg suitable cockpit components.

4

I just built a TT bike out of a 2005 cervelo p3sl for about $600 us. Then I got a bike fit for another $200. I’m 5’ 11" tall 150 lbs. My CdA on that bike is 0.230 m^2 with no aero optimization. That gets me 24.5 mph on 220 watts.

I already owned a deep front wheel, and I made my own disk cover for the rear.

Lots of good deals on ebay or the classifieds here.

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That’s awesome, Tom, do you pictures of your setup? I just picked up a P3 Al, and am looking at doing a budget build.

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Yep…

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=6710491

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Aerobrake, really? Is there any solid evidence to support that?

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As mentioned, it is all about fit. I will put a comfortable seat on the top of the list. All the fancy stuff in the world won’t overcome a crappy saddle.

Once your lower half is positioned reasonably well you can sort out the cockpit. I like a bar that has risers that you can swap for quick height adjustments.

For a first TT bike, I would recommend a narrower position over trying to get really low.

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Aerobrake, really? Is there any solid evidence to support that?

http://www.ero-sports.com/index.php/22-ero-insight/91-aero-tested-tririg-omega-x-brake

10

Aerobrake, really? Is there any solid evidence to support that?
Boatloads. There are a few separate independent studies that compare performance of a few different aero brakes.

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Yeah I saw the TriRig test and that one. But I wonder I much is due to that particular setup.
What about direct mount brake like the BMC TM02 or the old Spec Shiv.
https://www.bmc-switzerland.com/int-fr/velos/route/aero-timemachine-02-three/

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Something like this? Nice bike.

assuming your saddle works well, and you are jonesing to upgrade, I’d go with upgrading the basebar to something like a Pro Missile alloy, or some other relatively inexpensive basebar. tririg brakes, and good tires and latex tubes. You have good wheels already. make sure your cable runs are nice and tight, check your bottle placement. Then ride it like you stole it.

https://ridewithgps.com/photos/full/20801.jpg

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Howd you get the painting to balance on the saddle?

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The cheaper equipment you can put on your body makes more of a difference than you’d think.

The skinsuit gains are just ridiculous IMHO.

But, your money spend should be in the following order if you’re tight for cash:

-budget sleeved skinsuit, something like a Galibier, can be had for $75 to $110 depending on model and sales

-several model years old TT helmet (Giro Adv. 2, etc.), can be had for $35 to $40

-good tire/tube setup, I choose just 4000s for training and the TT’s for a race

-get a used left-only crank power meter for about $200: not for training necessarily, but you can pace a TT extremely well on one

-used cheap deep front wheel

-Wheelbuilder rear wheel disc cover

-Then finally cockpit (assuming your fit right now is acceptable)

I’ve gone close to 26mph on only 220ish watts on a road bike with clip ons but using a skinsuit and TT helmet.

Lastly, time spent in TT training isn’t just about power adaptation. It’s about being comfortable on the road staying in the tuck and putting out power around corners and in situations you’d normally sit-up and free-wheel.

You lose a LOT of time sitting up and freewheeling, then gaining speed back.

If you’re after a new 10 mile PB, then losing 5 to 10 seconds each time you take a corner isn’t going to help.

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he already has a 60mm front wheel and a disc rear…

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he already has a 60mm front wheel and a disc rear…

Then mark it off the list, lol.

The question was about cockpits and budget, but did list other items and not others. So, just pasting the tried and true money path.

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Aerobrake, really? Is there any solid evidence to support that?

http://www.ero-sports.com/...tririg-omega-x-brake

IDK if I’d believe that testing since it was rider onboard. That’s a lot of additional error that can be introduced. I tested the Tririg brake vs the Vision tri max aero at 0, -5, -7.5 & -10 yaw the differences in the wind tunnel. There was no additional source of rider error, this was brake only testing on a Scott Plasma 3 premium. The Vision brake also had the brake cable still attached, the TriRig was run without any cable. Add a cable and that gap probably shrinks a touch.

The Tri Rig & Vision Aero max are = to each other. Neither is faster. Well the Tririg is potentially < the length of a bike faster over 40k. Or IOW hardly worth worrying about which brake you use. Buy the one that fits your budget and is easiest to install/work on.

At 0, -5, -10 yaw the tri rig was 1w faster. At -7.5 yaw the Tririg was .74w faster.
A2 Tunnel error is <1w.

basically there is zero difference between the TriRig and the Vision. IIRC from Coggans testing the Tririg was ~ 4-6w faster than a standard brake. Maybe he’ll chime in with the actual numbers

Now onto the list someone put up.

  1. Aero helmet
  2. Tri suit
  3. Aero brakes
  4. Cockpit
  5. Deep wheels
  6. Current frame

Assuming upgrading the frame isn’t happening I’d put aero brakes at #5. You’re going to get more bang ie aero benefit for you buck from the cockpit and putting something on there as aero as possible. Suits are individualistic. Vs a 2 piece tri kit or even an ITU suit, 98.x% of the time a sleeved suit is faster. The right sleeved suit though can be as much as 15w faster vs the wrong sleeved suit which may be 3-5w faster.

I might reorder the list, especially based on this testing to look more like this:

  1. Aero Helmet
  2. cockpit
  3. trisuit
  4. deep wheels
  5. aero brake

Hope that helps with some decision making

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Assuming upgrading the frame isn’t happening I’d put aero brakes at #5…

Aero Helmet
cockpit
trisuit
deep wheels
aero brakeI agree… the only reason I put the brake at #2 is because it is a lot cheaper than a decent cockpit or trisuit and provides a pretty decent improvement.

19

There is something to be said about budget aero upgrades.

Saving 3w is saving 3w no matter what!

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@Jasonhalifax: Yes that’s the one.
Except for the fork, I have an old Columbus Super Muscle road fork for now, waiting to get something more aero and with less rake also. I modified the Profile Design AirWing basebar, cut the curved ends so the brakes are aligned horizontally. The extensions are Profile Design ADL ( small ‘‘S’’ bends), so the TT shifters are also horizontal. I’m thinking of using mini-Ilink housings.
Our team uses Jackroo garment. Any advice on best Trisuit model ?
Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated.
Vision Trimax aero brakes are a lot cheaper than Tririg didn’t think about those :slight_smile: ( Tririg charges $60. shipping fees to Canada for a single caliper eeeekk !).
I have an old Limar Chrono aero helmet somewhere in the basement. never took out of the box. I don’t know how it performs…the worst part of it seems that it doesn’t have air ‘‘intake’’ on the front so I guess it must be a furnace for the head on warm weather events.
I also read some great advices on the different ‘‘critique my bike position’’ threads. Once I assemble the bike, I’ll definitely send you a short video and ask for your comments.

Louis :slight_smile: