Just registered for the marathon at Pikes. Any advice would be appreciated. Im about a 3:45 marathoner and live in Texas, and will not be able to altitude train.
I have a PP veteran buddy who said that putting in some quality time on an escalator-style stair master helped him train. We’re in SE VA - not a hill in sight with a max elevation greater than 68’ MSL.
Just registered for the marathon at Pikes. Any advice would be appreciated. Im about a 3:45 marathoner and live in Texas, and will not be able to altitude train.
Be prepared to hydrate more than you will in Tx. Altitude contributes to dehydration. If at all possible, go a week or two early and get used to the altitude. Easy to get transitory altitude sickness which sucks. Sunscreen.
John
For “most” people, Pikes Peak is a fast hike. Only the top few athletes are running after Barr Camp. I volunteered for plenty of years at the cirque aid station (about 1.5 miles from the top) and almost everyone is hiking at that point. I have also done the marathon once and the ascent a few times…
Hydration is important - we have the dry heat and the alltitude, but no humidity. Make sure you are drinking regularly once you get to Colorado. I would also plan on using some kind of hydration pack or water belt for the race - there are only 6 aid stations on the way up - with three miles and plenty of vertical gain between a few. You will also be on the mountain for a while - think about food to eat - not all aid stations have good food that you would want at 13000, 14000 feet.
You will have the ability to pack clothes for the top - take advantage of that. The weather can change very quickly and having a light jacket might not be a bad idea. If the weather is good, it will start cool, warm up until you get to about Barr Camp or A-Frame, then start cooling as you go higher. It can be 40 degrees colder on the summit then down in Manitou Springs. Keep that in mind for the descent.
Training - I had my best time the year I stayed off the mountain and just ran and rode. I think the riding really helps strengthen and simulate the hill climbing. Treadmill set on incline, stairmaster, escalator, parking garage ramps all help. Just swap out an interval session with a hill session and that should work.
Altitude - there are two schools of thought - arrive early and get adjusted, or last minute and hope for the best. Physiologically, getting to COS three days before might be the worst option. Keep in mind that it takes over a month to fully aclimate to altitude from sea level and most people don’t have that much vacation time.
Hope that helps!
Amazing! Thanks a ton!
Ran up and down with a friend, never did the race. Same distance though, and we went hard (because were idiots).
Best advice - train with lots of hills (longish hills if you can).
Also, if you don’t come from altitude, I would try to get there a few days to a week before to somewhat acclimatize (you may even want to take the cog railway to the top and run around a bit. Don’t be discouraged though, I went from my home in New York to Colorado and rode up to about 12,000 on my third day there one summer (however, during Pikes Peak I was living in CO at 5000 ft). The biggest difference for me was around 12,200 during the last two miles (God that was a long 2 miles). Also, the last few miles are somewhat techincal. Somewhat technical = kinda technical for running, but not too technical for hiking. So you might want some technical trails in your runs. If you don’t have too many hills, hit a treadmill (way that hurts to even suggest that) and put it on a good incline and keep running.
At the race - Start out slow on the mountain, remember take small steps, don’t go leaping two steps or large rocks (when it gets technical). The guy that is the multiple time winner, suggests this too, so do it. Drink a lot of water - you are at altitude. Beware of t-storms above tree line and know that it is way colder at the top.
Oh, and I learned this the hard way, don’t stop at the cafe and eat fudge at the top - stupid.
Going down is cardiovascularly easy, but physically beats the crap out of your legs. Also, you might get runners trots descending for 13 miles. Hmmn, or that could have been the fudge, but it could happen. First few miles descending - take it easy because the trail is technical, you will be lightheaded, and taking in the scenic views, and you don’t need to take a tumble.
Good Luck and tear it up,
Chris
There is a bunch of training information on the PPM website or linked from there. The one workout that is shouted from the mountaintop by folks is treadmill runs at 9%+ grade. Everything TracyT says is spot on.
buyer beware.
We were there in 2007 for a soccer tournament at USAF coming from 900 Ft elevation. Advice given was arrive 5 or more days before race to acclimate. Baby aspirin to increase red blood cell production.
Haven driven the course, I like the small steps idea.
I am from texas too - 594 ft above sea level.
I have tried every theory for altitude marathons. Baby aspirin is a myth, but it helps many physiologically, so by all means, if that works, go for it. I tried a prescription drug for altitude once - acetozolamide - my physician gave it to me even thought he thought it would only work for skiing, but he is a marathoner so thought it would’t hurt to try. No help.
I did the ‘arrive within 24 hrs’ theory once and actually found it to be the best result. Your blood - so they say - does not have the time to negatively respond until 24 hrs. 3-5 days is the worst possible altitude issue you can face. so avoid that timing. Truly? It takes 2 weeks to fully acclimate. I don’t know about you, but I cannot take time off from work and family to hang out in CO, no matter how wonderful it is.
I applied for Pikes too- not sure how I will manage ( if I get in), but appreciate all the advice from everyone. I do plan to take hand warmers. Every marathon I have run in below zero temps I use them. Seems if I keep my digits warm I can manage the rest.
One question based on previous comments: Can you send you bag forward with jacket, etc? Or do I just carry it all onboard?
I’m from cos and did the ascent last year and will do again this year. Its more walking than running, so practice powerwalking uphill. Stairs work too but it really isn’t the same muscles. I did the ascent in just over 4 hours and would guess that my flat non-altitude marathon would be comparable or a little slower than yours. 4mi running/9mi fast walking. People react so differently to the race that your ascent portion could be anywhere from 3-5 hours though for most its around their regular marathon time. The weather was perfect last year, but you want to be prepared by carrying layers and using the drop bag at the top. The aid stations are pretty far apart so you will want to carry a bottle and refill it. My big mistake last year was not stopping to drink enough at barr camp in addition to filling my (too) small bottle. I ran out of water 1/4 mile past barr camp and didn’t get a refill until 45min later at the a-frame. Drink lots of water. The smart thing to do at your pace would be to walk from where you get on the trail until the top of the incline. The people who don’t either are at the very front of the pack or they become zombies above the a-frame.
When I did the marathon (back in 97 
so info for racing is a little dated) there were drop bags at the start that were brought to the summit for the runners. I had a change of socks, a pair of light gloves, windjacket and pbj sandwich in mine. Took a few minutes at the top to change socks, get the gloves (to protect hands if you fall on the descent) and eat the sandwich. The weather was nice and I had a LLS on from the start so left the wind jacket.
For the ascent, since you have to wait for buses to take you back down, I would make sure you have warm clothes - pants, warm jacket, hat, warm gloves, ect. The weather can turn very quickly from sunny to snowy.
Most of the trail is not uber technical running/hiking - just grinding. The steepest part is the first three miles up Mount Manitou, then there is a gradual leveling between No Name Creek aid sation and Barr Camp. After Barr, another long steep grind as you approach timberline and A-frame. Then the air starts getting really thin and those who pushed too hard on Mount Manitou start the “death march” With two miles to go, you start the traverse along the face of the mountain and will be greeted by the SAR at the Cirque with the Kazoo band. Then the hardest mile and most techincial mile from cirque to the summit, thru the 16 golden stairs - lots of scrambling in places. This is also the most congested part of the race - as there will be traffic in both directions. Listen for the “runner up” calls down the line - runners on the way down have the right of way.
As far as the aclimatization tips - I’m no good there - 6000 feet seems normal for me! But the racers from AR seem to do well every year.
I’ll apologize in advance: this response is going to be all over the map and not very well organized.
First some background: The ascent was the first race I ever entered. I’ve run the ascent 4 times ('06 → '09, including the now epic '08 blizzard when I snagged my wave 1 qualifier) and the marathon once ('10). I’m registered for the ascent again this year (more on that later). I’m also the editor of the Incline Club newsletter and my weekly long run typically spent running some distance up Barr Trail.
In general, there is a ton of information on Matt Carpenter’s site (www.skyrunner.com) and the PPM website’s message board. Matt’s training guide is long out of print and based on the talks I’ve had with him about it, in need of a serious revision.
As a 3:45 marathoner with no peak training, you should expect the ascent portion to take you on average 3:45 → 4:15. Then expect to spend another 2:15 → 2:45 going down. It is going to take you 6 to 7 hours for this race and at no point can you just coast along and take a break. If you had extensive training on the peak then based on your marathon time you would be looking at 3:15 → 3:45 up and 2->2:30 down.
The folks who tend to do better are the ones with the best power to weight ratios. This mountain tends to destroy the folks with the pencil thin legs who can otherwise run 2:10 marathons. Each year we get a kenyan or two and I have yet to see one finish. They are typically bailing out less than 3 miles in. The mountain does favor folks with a good solid cycling background who dont fall into the ‘fat cyclist’ category. i.e., good climbers. Triathletes tend to do well. Case in point, Samantha McGlone showed up for the Barr Trail Mountain Race (halfway up and then back down) in '08 and set a CR for the fastest time to Barr Camp. Most of the top runners have a good set of quads on them with very little upper body to weight them down.
That said, unless your genetics are such that altitude has no major adverse impact on you, training at altitude is a must if you want to do well. Without it expect to spend even more time going up.
On the topic of Altitude, the old wives tale was to arrive the night before or the week before but not 3 days before for proper acclimation. This is pure BS and not backed up by any study I’ve ever seen. If anything it seems to be contradicted by the few studies on the topic. The sportscientist blog had an entry on this back during the world cup matches this past year. Basically, all things being equal (sleep, fuel, etc) the further in advance you get there the better. I suspect that most of the issues related to the old “3 days before is bad” rule were sleep and fuel related, not acclimation.
And now for the dirty little secret: Anybody going slower than a 3:45 is going to be spending a lot of time walking. As in you will run the first section along the road to Ruxton, then maybe a bit up Ruxton but by the time your feet hit the dirt you should probably stop wasting your energy and just start walking. The folks who go sub 3 for the ascent will run most of it but thats only about 10% of the field. I walked 75% of the race when I posted a 3:34. (I had a foot pod on my shoe recording cadence, so it was easy to spot the run vs walk sections)
One thing that screws folks up is fuel: There are aid stations at various points. Due to the logistics involved, they are typically not close enough to let you go without carrying something. My personal favorite solution to this issue is to use a hand bottle that I can fill up at the aid stations and then drink along the way. Other folks use a camel back. Also, this is not an IM, they dont have a full spread of stuff. You get water, gatorade (endurance formula) and that is about it. Stash a few gu’s in your pockets and take on your usual schedule as if it was an IM. Only 3 of the aid stations (Noname, Bob’s Road and the Summit) are accessible via truck. All of the others require the staff to hike in several miles.
Also, while it is perfectly legit to have somebody meet you at the summit and hand you whatever you need, there is no provision for a special needs bag to meet you up there. They do have a sweat check but that bag will only be available at the finish, which is going to be 8000ft below you. (If you were only running the ascent then it would be at the summit for you)
One of the top questions I always get is what to wear on race day. Personally it is always a game day decision for me based on the hourly weather at the summit. http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=38.840209015471224&lon=-105.04315209283959&site=pub&smap=1&unit=0&lg=en&FcstType=graphical is the guide by which I plan my day out. In most years I go with a long sleeve tech-t and shorts. I roll the sleeves up at the start and then they get rolled down around treeline. One year it was so warm I just went with a t-shirt. In '08 it was shorts, jacket, hat, gloves and a pair of pants stashed in the camel back that I put on a tree line. Whatever you do, bring everything with you on your trip up here. In '08 the local REI was a packed mess the night before as all of the out of town runners made a mad rush to get stuff that they didn’t pack for the trip.
Shoes are simple: yes, you should wear some. Trail shoes will not help you. The trail is decomposed granite so the traction is typically rather good. Oddly enough, the worst shoes I used were a pair of trail shoes that had hard rubber soles with big lugs on them. Maybe good for mud but the rubber just bounced right off of the rocks at the top, making them feel slick. Matt Carpenter uses a pair of 5oz Nike racing flats. I tend go use NB 905’s. Find something that you like and stick with it.
Downhill technique is critical. Basically if you are a heal striker you are going to be in a world of hurt and your quads will be destroyed by the time you get back to Barr Camp. As much as some folks hate it, the ‘chi’ running technique is spot on for the downhill. Just pick your feet up a bit more to avoid tripping on something. Lean forward, and keep a high cadence.
Also, memorize the land marks and how they relate to Matt’s pace calculator ( http://www.skyrunner.com/pace.htm ). Some folks have been known to print off the chart and tape it under their bib for easy reference. Sine mile markers are worthless (1 mile left to the summit can mean 30+ minutes) it is best to have a sense of where you are and how much time is left. Also, just because the downhill is, well, downhill, does not mean that you can go fast. On the flats I can go at an 8:00/mile while talking and not really trying. On Barr Trail, to average an 8:00 pace is race speed for me. The trail is that technical and there are that many switchbacks, rocks and other things that get in your way. Also, the trail “averages” 11%. The problem is that I cant think of any major section that is 11%. It is 14+% for the first 3 and last 5 miles and about 8% for the middle section from Noname Creek to Barr Camp.
One final note about this race: Normally it is safe to say that the majority of the folks will finish around 200% of the course record. So for an 8 hour IM, almost everybody is done by 16 hours in (excepting the total train wrecks or those with real disadvantages). In this race, the majority of the runners will take more than 2x the CR. Very few will be within 150% of the CR. The main reason is that most folks are simply not properly trained for this race and it just turns into a sufferfest. As the joke goes, ultras are “just four fat people who can’t run very fast but have a high tolerance for boredom.” And that sums up most of the PPM runners (As an aside, this is why I reverted to the PPA this year. I have a goal of no more than 150% of the CR for any race. I’m not interested in suffering anymore just for the sake of proving that I can suffer for X number of hours.)
hope this helps,
–john