How much time saving from an optimal position vs an okayish?
This one says 2-5 minutes over 40k tt. Sounds like a lot
http://www.aeroweenie.com/assets/backup/cervelo_frames/cervelo_position.html
certainly in the realm of reasonable depending on what end of okayish to what end of optimal you go to.
Sounds right, I think it is alot–about 1-2mph over 40k. Heck, just spitballing, tires+tubes can get you 0.5-1 mph, skin suit is another 0.5-1mph, and shaved legs can net you 0.5 mph (depending on your Wookie factor); so a modest position improvement (good to great) could be about that order of magnitude.
I estimate I shaved about 2 minutes going from good to very good. So it’s possible.
Another data point, I’m riding regularly at about 20-30W less power than one of my competitors that nearly the same overall build size, same bike (actually he rides a disk). Same race kit. Same race, same traffic. He usually at least 3-5 lbs lighter. We do ride a different helmet, but he has a disk, I don’t. He’s on tubulars I think, not sure what tire, I’m on latex tubes and clinchers.
At Kona in 2015, we rode about the same power and I was about 10’ faster, and had less lap traffic (less legal draft) since i swam faster and was on a older Speed Concept 7 series then, , older front wheel at the time. Bigger advantage since it’s a windy course. On a hilly course, I have a smaller advantage where power to weight ratio neutralizes things just a little.
So yes, it can be very significant. 3-5’ in 70.3, 8-10’ in in IM, 2-3’ in a 40k, all depending on conditions.
Time to get the position and other aero factors dialed in then
Almost free speed
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I estimate I shaved about 2 minutes going from good to very good. So it’s possible.
If you shaved 2 minutes in a 40k going from “good” to “very good” then you weren’t that “good” to begin with or “very good” is different meaning to you. I suppose it’s all relative to your own spectrum…
I went from 54:14 in 2001 at the Double Bong 40k(39) which I won to 49:37 at same event in 2011. 2001 would have been a good position but not very good, and equipment not nearly as good.
So, I might not agree with your interpretation. Also did a 51:46 in 2008(pre-tunnel) which is still 3 min slower. are you saying 28mph is not a good position?
I went from 54:14 in 2001 at the Double Bong 40k(39) which I won to 49:37 at same event in 2011. 2001 would have been a good position but not very good, and equipment not nearly as good.
Ok, so over the space of 10 years you gained 4.5 minutes…?
So, I might not agree with your interpretation. Also did a 51:46 in 2008(pre-tunnel) which is still 3 min slower. are you saying 28mph is not a good position?
No, you know that’s not what I’m saying.
Yes, over 10 years, 4.5 min more or less
but also, in last 3 years of that span, 2:09. that 2:09 is due to positional tweaks from tunnel visit. so from 28mph to 29.3 mph which I think shows that you can indeed gain 2 min going from good to very good(depending on how you define those ranges) power output very close on those 2 runs as well.
apparently my lower math skillz have failed me with the 3 min comment, meant 2min.
edit: so you would agree you can gain 2 min from good to very good then? I would
To get a little more back to you…
Yep, plenty of almost free speed. Find the Platypus thread. It’s all the how-to on field testing. For the really low-hanging fruit, you’ll find a powermeter and a reproducible course (say 0.5 km loop) on a windless day will get you pretty far. But for fine tuning things (and there’s alot to fine tune), those smaller gains are hard to detect without the aid of software like Golden Cheetah (or equivalent) and calm conditions.-J