I’m doing Raleigh 70.3 at the end of May. I love my Gatorskins because I never have a flat. I like the security of knowing I’m not going to drive 8 hours from New Jersey only to get a flat tire. Then maybe screw up changing the flat and not finish the race. But at the same time I’m torn with leaving time on the course by not running a better racing tire.
So my question, all other things being equal, how much time am I giving up across 56 miles?
I’m not going to crunch the numbers, but the time penalty for the gatorskins vs the 4000s is pretty substantial. The 4000s is pretty decent in terms of flat protection compared to other tires that have no flat protection built in.
Will you be contending for a podium spot in your AG or are shooting for a PR? If yes, go with the 4000s. Will a few minutes in your finishing time mean that much to you? If you’re that worried about getting a flat and aren’t as concerned about time roll with the gatorskins.
I remember this same question came up a year or so back - Id have to search to find it
The consensus seemed to be, that over a half or full course, as long as you were decently fast at changing a flat, was that you still came out ahead with the 4000s vs the gatorskins
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digging around I found some testing, so one comparison:
gatorskin of about .0058 on road crr
compared to a continental 4000S which is very durable .0034
run this through the aeroweenie calculator:
http://aeroweenie.com/calc.html
Default inputs, add the CRR, assume 225 watts average power
4000s goes 2:18:47
gatorskins goes 2:23:16
You could flat with the 4000s, change it, still win
Continental force time drops to 2:17:53
Continental supersonic time drops to 2:17:31
(ignoring aero issues)
The continental Attack/Force still have puncture layers, use a new set for racing and the risk of flats is almost no different than with gatorskins.
Conservatively 3 seconds per watt wasted every 40k. I don’t know how badly a Gatorskin sucks, but let’s figure 8 watts for the pair. I also assume you are wasting another 4 watts by not running latex tubes. So some napkin math gives 3122.25=81 seconds. I have seen 4 seconds per watt, so 2 minutes isn’t unreasonable.
Another way to think of this is to look at your expected average power output. If you are averaging 240 watts, then 12 watts is 5% wasted
I have had the sidewalls on both gaterskins and 4000s fail me. There are no insurances. However, changing out a 4000 is a whole lot easier than changing out a gaterskin. On race day stick with the 4000s.
I’d recommend using the 4000S’s. They are very durable race tires. Personally, I’d feel comfortable racing Attack or Supersonics.
I run 4000s daily and very rarely have a flat, better than any other tire I have run. I feel that a fresh set of 4000s will be very similar in terms of puncture resistance with the Gatorskins, but as Jack showed the 4000s are faster.
Jake
Good grief! Life’s too short to ride on lousy rubber.
I get the impression with this and so many similar posts that, the OP can’t or won’t change a flat tire. Why? It’s an easy 2 - 3 minute job that if you are a cyclist really should know how to do - before you even start to ride!
We ride on Conti 4000’s ALL the time on shitty, awful roads and my wife and I average between the two of us 2 - 3 on-the-road flats a year with big miles ridden. That’s it. When it does happen. It’s all very business-like, we change the tube, and then in 2 - 3 minutes we are on our way.
Flat’s happen. They are rare, but they do happen. So be ready for it.
keep your bike clean and quit touching the frickin chain
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If you have horizontal dropouts there really isn’t a way around it. You can’t even get the tire out without getting grease on your finger without jostling all your shit around. Putting the wheel back on, it’s possible to do it and only get one finger greasy in the process, but unless you keep a latex glove or piece of cloth balled up in your flat kit it is just a fact of life.
If you have vertical dropouts you shouldn’t have to touch the chain at all.
For horizontals: be sure to put the chain into the small ring up front, or even drop the chain from the front chainring. This will lessen the chain tension on the back and make the wheel easier to remove/install.
I’m doing Raleigh 70.3 at the end of May. I love my Gatorskins because I never have a flat. I like the security of knowing I’m not going to drive 8 hours from New Jersey only to get a flat tire. Then maybe screw up changing the flat and not finish the race. But at the same time I’m torn with leaving time on the course by not running a better racing tire.
So my question, all other things being equal, how much time am I giving up across 56 miles?
Let me know your AG first and I will supply a proper answer then.
What is the trick to changing a rear tire and not getting grease all over your hands?
you could use your princess gloves or perhaps your daddy’s trust fund paperwork or better yet get your butler to change the flat
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without di2, absolutely do not need to touch chain.
with di2, still don’t need to touch chain, but need to be more cautious as to not move RD in or out(ie up/down gears) I can get my wheel in/out with di2 on horizontal even with a single ring set up in front without touching chain
Thanks for all the feedback. Looks like a roughly 5 minute cost. I know I shouldn’t be this concerned with changing a flat, but I haven’t changed one in 2 years, primarily because I use gatorskins. So its a bit of a catch-22. And yes, I’ve practiced a few times in the gararge and changed the tire for the trainer during winter, but I image that during a race the stress levels are much higher. I’ve watched enough Kona DVDs to see that even the pros get flustered and screw up a simple tube replacement.
Given everything said, I think I’ll put on the 4000s and roll the dice. Thanks for the help.
With horizontal dropouts? Let’s see it then…
I can get my wheel in/out with di2 on horizontal even with a single ring set up in front without touching chain
Do you have any photos/video/details on how to do this? I’ve always had to grab the chain for horizontal dropouts. Not really an issue, but I’m always looking for something easier!
seriously? with mech shifting, this has been posted before. I am not going to go hunt it up for you. you know the wheel moves back and at the same time so can the rd top pulley(mech also conveniently moves in and out as in shifting gears without shifting. this is what you can’t do with di2 which makes it less easy). to the point you can drop the wheel from engaging the chain and presto off it is. reverse to install(ie move rd to position first and insert wheel. not rocket science
I cannot demo a video for you with mech, as I no longer run it on my horizontal bike. that and I can’t film myself and do at same time as it is does require 2 hands
Seriously. With my setup on my P2 no amount of monkeying with the rear wheel will get the chain off the cassette without me touching the chain. And I’m not even bad at changing the wheel–if I do things my way I have swapped rear wheels between my P2 and my road bike with vertical dropouts in under a minute.
If I could do that without getting a single finger greasy that would be great, but I can’t. Either my chain is too short or my 39T is too big or my seat stay clearance to my chain is too little or my derailleur B-screw adjustment has my RD wrapped too far around. Either way it isn’t possible on my bike as far as I can tell.