Hello,
I’ll be living in NYC starting in June or July and looking for a good half in August/September and came across these two. Other than the obvious, like Timberman is sold out, do you have any pros/cons of each? It also looks like Esprit is much faster, which isn’t a deciding factor, but I am curious on the difficulty of each course.
Thanks.
Have done them both in the past and have them both on the sched again this year.
Aside from the distances these are two completely different races.
Swim:
T-man in choppy lake with possible sighting difficulties
Esprit in a rowing basin. Down and back in smooth water and great sight lines (almost like swimming in a pool)
Bike: HUGE difference
T-man on challenging course …good number of climbs but also some long flat riding on smooth smooth pavement
Esprit is 20 loops on a smoking fast race car circuit. Your split here should be a good 15 min faster than at T-man
Run:
T-man is a nice two loop run with a few rollers
Esprit is pancake flat
Cost:Esprit cheaper but good bang for buck at T-man
Viewer friendliness: Esprit allows for fantastic viewing with multi-loop bike ride
Location: small town in NH …beautiful area vs one of my favourite cities to visit in Mtl
Other: T-man is full and getting accomodations can be difficult. You can enter Esprit right up to 2 weeks before race and plenty of accomodations in a city of that size.
Can’t go wrong with either of these races
I didn’t realize the bike in Esprit was that. That explains the blazing times. Does it get crowded on the racetrack?
Thanks.
Actually the race (demi) is rather clean especially compared to some of the other HIM races that people talk about on this board all the time. The track is rather wide, you almost have to make an effort to draft and there were a ton of draft police on the course. Some areas bottle up like in turns but even then you’ve got enough room that passing on a turn isn’t dangerous.
Here is another option for you as it is in September and local to NYC
http://www.westchestertoughman.com/
I heard good things about it in it’s innaugural last year. I’d do it this year but I’ve got IMLP and then NYC marathon so it doesn’t fit.
I have never been to nor raced Timberman but I did completed the Mtl Half Esprit last September.
Here is the lowdown:
Swim: Takes place in the Olympic rowing basin. Essentially a long rectangular course with no current, warm water (yet wetsuit legal come Sept.) no chop and not too crowded at the start.
Bike: Complete mayhem. 200 or so riders on a 4.x Km long (figure 21 loops), 5-7m wide Formula 1 race track without a hint of climbing. Lot’s or corning so you save massive amounts of time if you can apex a corner properly. Expect tons of drafting and dodging of riders who don’t know how to corner. Race marshals (on motorcycles) are rightfully anal about people riding in packs. An aero setup will shave time off of your bike split on this pancake flat course. Expect crazy fast bike splits here. Last year’s fastest bike split clocked a 45+Km/h average speed!
Run: Nothing special. Flat course consisting of 3 laps around the Olympic rowing basin. Expect headwinds to pickup by the time you get to the run leg.
Overall impressions: Very fast, very well run, reasonable entry fee, great post race meal, serious competition (last year’s winner came in at 3:52 w/ 4 racers coming in under 4 hours.). Montreal is relatively cheap with lot’s of lodging options and the race course is only a short walk away from a subway station (they let you in w/ your bike). The race is set on the same site as the 1967 World Fair is you still have some energy left after your race for sightseeing.
Hope this helps.
It doesn’t get too packed on the track believe it or not. Actually with the swim wave start at Tman I have witnessed more drafting on THAT bike course than at Esprit. At Esprit Sportstats keeps track of your laps and announces ’ so-in-so, you have 1 lap to go’ on the PA so you don’t have to worry about keeping count. Everything is very orderly for the most part. You would think that a 20 loop ride would be rather taxing mentally but 20 loops go by real quick when you’re having fun !
It doesn’t get too packed on the track believe it or not.
Depends on your average speed. Cycling is my strength and because I was riding faster than the average cyclist, I was constantly on the brakes through every corner while trying to avoid slower riders. Remember, there is only one “fast” line through a corner and the hair pins are a problem. Since I am originally from Montreal I have spent many hours riding on that F1 track. In training, I normally scrub a little speed before entering a corner and apex my way through. This is simply not possible during the Half Esprit.
That being said, it is still a really fast and fun bike leg. Just not challenging.
Actually I think it sounds like a blast. And obviously the road surface would be ideal. I was contemplating the full, but I’m not sure I could handle 40 laps on the track. I’d want a few hills to stretch things out a bit. Thanks again. See you there.
Andy
Most importantly Desertdude opened up a can of whup ass at Demi Esprit. My pathetic performance (aside from my Bjorn like bike time…which explains the slow run…but who is going to argue with a 2:0X bike split on ST…) will be much better this year…it better be!!!
Demi esprit absolutely rocks. One of my favourite races anywhere…and it is in Montreal, so how can it not be good…demi esprit is slick…just like the ladies, the hockey team, the partying and the culture in Montreal
Dev
oh nice. good call. are you in nyc? i’m moving there in the summer and a bit anxious about the training as i’m coming from san diego, where it’s always nice and there are 100s of miles of roads to ride, bla bla bla. i’m sure i’ll make it work just fine.
x2 what Dev said
.
Yeah…I have to shake my head at the guys doing the full Esprit. 40 LOOPS!! It would by psychological torture for me
A vote for Timberman here! The location is to die for: a beautiful clean lake, scenic New Hampshire countryside, a tougher-than-average HIM course that will force you to dig deep (and double your sense of accomplishment after you cross the finish line). And then, of course, there is the Keith Jordan factor: the best RD I know. Aside from Timberman, consider signing up for his other NH race: The Mooseman Half, which is earlier in the season, just as good, but not as well-known (a hidden gem).
I can’t comment on Espirit, but I can give a HUGE recommendation to Timberman, or any other Endorfun event. I think Macca is doing Timberman this year, the venue, course, and organization are all top notch.
Geez Dev, not even a mention for the 1/2 Canadian in your hometown?!! That is a fantastic race and one I enjoy every year. (well the past 2 at least).
Work in the city live in the burbs, bout 35 miles north. Lost of hills to ride, Harriman State Park in particular. And it, Harriman, hosts Tri’s of various distances from May to August.
Jan-March can be tough but there are always places to run and swim. You’ll need a trainer though.
Good luck with the move.
Most importantly Desertdude opened up a can of whup ass at Demi Esprit. My pathetic performance (aside from my Bjorn like bike time…which explains the slow run…but who is going to argue with a 2:0X bike split on ST…) will be much better this year…it better be!!!
Demi esprit absolutely rocks. One of my favourite races anywhere…and it is in Montreal, so how can it not be good…demi esprit is slick…just like the ladies, the hockey team, the partying and the culture in Montreal
Dev
I live in Montreal so maybe that’s why I can’t get all excited about Esprit, but I have done the Oly and watched the other races. Races in Quebec tend to be more ITU multi loop afairs and it’s usually fine but the Montreal race is just plain scary on the bike, almost as bad as Clearwater. Timberman is a great race, I’m sorry but Esprit is not. If you really want to do a bunch of loops, Ottawa is a pretty good race. When I did it it was called the Canadian Half and probably still is. It’s part of a series by Somersault and the OP might want to check it out.
Yeah? While I live in Ottawa and I could NEVER in good conscience recommend someone drive in from out of town fot the primary purpose of competing in a Somersault race… Sorry.
Esprit over Canadian Half any day of the week my friend
How can you say if you have never done the Esprit half. They cap the size of the field and as DD said, you have to WORK to draft…there is plenty of room on the course. Again, what you see in the Olympic and what goes on in the half are two different things. Aside from the size of field, the typical half Ironman participant generally has a higher skill levle on account of having graduated up the distance tiers. Its not likely their first race. Frankly Wildflower was a lot scarier than anything at Demi Esprit.
The Canadian Half in Ottawa is also a good option, but frankly there is actually more room on the course at Esprit on account of the course being unidirectional 2 lane wide, where as Ottawa you only get to use one lane of the out and back. I’ve done each race 4-5 times, so I have been in pretty well every conceivable situation on both courses.
Dev