I was doing some cruise intervals earlier in my training and have progressed to doing some 20-30min tempo runs. My primary focus is Half-IM and under this year and I am wondering how these runs should progress. I can now do 30min at the pace I was holding for 20min about a month ago, should I push it to 40min or go back to 20min and pick up the pace and then try to work back up to 30min at the new pace? Thanks.
So no one else is doing and threshold work on the run? Sweet, this is going to be my year.
C’mon people, help me out here.
I was doing some cruise intervals earlier in my training and have progressed to doing some 20-30min tempo runs. My primary focus is Half-IM and under this year and I am wondering how these runs should progress. I can now do 30min at the pace I was holding for 20min about a month ago, should I push it to 40min or go back to 20min and pick up the pace and then try to work back up to 30min at the new pace? Thanks.
Both approaches have merit.
It depends a lot on what you are using as your tempo pace. Daniels uses a similar pace to FTP in cycling, a pace you can hold for 50-60 minutes. He reccomends 20-30 minute runs at that pace. By definition it should be hard, but not really hard, because after all, you should be able to hold it for 50-60 minutes.
There’s nothing wrong with running at T pace (or whatever else you want to call it) for longer than 20-30 minutes, it just incurs a larger recovery cost. Deciding how to parse your running time is a bit more complicated, as each run needs to be looked at in total with your other workouts.
So, in answering your question, either would probably benefit you. Which makes more sense depends on what other runs/rides/swims you do during the week.
Scott
So no one else is doing and threshold work on the run?
Running? Do people talk about running on this forum? I thought this was a bike forum.
Actually, no I don’t do threshold runs or any type of tempo anymore and I am faster than ever. My combined 3.5 mile/2.7mile splits from the Desert Duathlon last week amount to a 33:40 off-road 10K, so I am going to stick with my training theory of more miles, more of the time. I used to run a lot of speed and found it wore me out for other running and I saw very small improvements. The problem with any type of non-aerobic training comes when the improvements stop after a couple of months–everything I have read states that other-than-aerobic training benefits peak after 6-8 weeks and then you must go back to becoming more aerobically efficient.
Having said that, I have never seen any coach or training plan that espoused the idea of tempo/threshold runs much longer than 30 minutes. Running in sand and up and down hills has definately strengthened my running though, so not all my running is easy.
Chad
Running? Do people talk about running on this forum? I thought this was a bike forum.
HAHA, seriously, getting a reply to a running question on this forum is like pulling teeth. Even the swimming threads get more love. Thanks for the advice. I think my run training is pretty well balanced and my tempo runs are as much a mental tool as a physical tool. For the first few strides I always think “Great, now I just have to sprint for the next 20-30 minutes.” 30 minutes sounds like a good cap, I will probably cycle up from 20-30min and then drop back down to 20 minutes or so and bring the pace up. Thanks again.
“even swimming threads get more love”
LOL.
“even swimming threads get more love”
LOL.
You also have the word “chik” in your handle, my running threads will always be doomed to fall below your swimming threads.
I use tempo runs as part of my training. I alternate tempo runs with hill repeats. One week I will run hills the next week I’ll do a tempo run in it’s place. In the early season I will do 5 min warm up, 20 min tempo, 5 min recover to Z2, then another 20 min tempo, 5 min cool down. 3 months out from my race I will start running for the 40 min straight with no recovery. I never do more than 40 minutes. I would try the 20-5-20 and see how you feel before trying to push the full 40 min. How often are you doing your tempo runs? Jill
Usually alternating them with hill runs as well. At most 3 tempo runs in a 4 week period. I am up to 30min at T-Pace pretty comfortably. I was doing 4 x 1 mile repeats at T-Pace with 1 minute recovery then worked into 20min straight at T-Pace and am now up to 30min with a 10min W/U and 10min C/D.
I’m curious …what percent of your max HR does you tempo run put you at? I think some people do their tempo work at more of an interval pace, they go just a little too hard. You don’t mean you are doing mile repeats and tempo work,right? You’re saying this is what you did to work up to your 20 min tempo run? Jill
Sounds about right. If you are focused on 10K - 1/2 keep it around 30 minutes (4-5 miles) and just try to get faster. Races work best: 5K - 10 miles (but can leave you beat up for 2-4 days) … I have also had success combining long runs and tempo runs. Example: a 10 miler that starts slow and builds up, so miles 6-9 are close to tempo pace (30 sec. per mile off 10K pace) w/ mile 10 as a cool down.
I’ve been trying to keep my long runs (10-12 miles) to average about an 8 minute mile pace. Is that good in a 1/2 IM?
Depends … What’s your … 10K 1/2 mara. & your Oly tri. run time?
8 min./ mile on long easy runs is pretty speedy unless you run under 40 min. for a 10K.
Judging by the one HIM I finished and the 2 I have watched, 8 min./miles is faster than most people run. I ran a 1:35 and my run was top 10 out of 200+ … In a stand-alone 1/2 marathon its MOP.
Jill hits it on the head.
What Heart rate is your Tempo run. Ideally - your Threshold run is at your Lactate Threshold.
With increasing intensity, increased muscle mass is called on to meet the force production requirements. All of these muscles are contributing more or less lactic acid to the extracellular space and blood volume, depending on their fiber type composition, training status and activity level. However, the body is not just producing lactate, but also consuming it. The heart, the liver, the kidneys and inactive muscles are all locations where lactic acid can be taken up from the blood and either converted back to pyruvic acid and metabolized in the mitochondria or used as a building block to resynthesize glucose (the liver). These sites have low intracellular lactate concentration, so lactic acid diffuses INTO these cells from the circulatory system. If the rate of uptake or dissappearance of lactate equals the rate of production or appearance in the blood, then blood lactate concentration stays constant (or nearly so). When the rate of lactate production exceeds the rate of disappearance, lactic acid accumulates in the blood volume, then we see the ONSET of BLOOD LACTATE ACCUMULATION (OBLA). This is the “Lactate Threshold” (LT).
Training results in a decrease in lactate production at any given exercise intensity. Untrained individuals usually reach the LT at about 60% of VO2 max. With training, LT can increase from 60% to above 70% or even higher. Elite endurance athletes and top masters athletes typically have LTs at or above 80% of VO2 max. Values approaching 90% have been reported. The lactate threshold is both responsive to training and influenced by genetics.
To sum that up – ONE of your goals in getting faster at a triathlon (an Aerobic event) - is to raise your Lactate threashold.
Since you can’t do a blood test everytime you run – the best way to track is by Heart rate – Threshold run at YOUR threshold heartrate.
One of my workouts - Warm-up (10 min.) - 3 or 4 x (10 min. 5 beats above, 5 min. recovery (5 beats below))
I will also do: warm-up - (10 min. 5 beats above; 5min 5 beats below; 15 min. 5 beats above; 5 min. 5 beats below; 20 min. 5 beats above, 5 min. 5 beats below) *** This is my Test workout – IF I can do the 20 minutes at 5 beats above easily - then I am ready to add 5 beats to my threshold pace. IF I can’t do 20 minutes - then I need to subtract 5 beats.
Hope I explained this enough (and not to much…)
Like some others have mentioned be careful about the intensity of the runs. It is easy to go too fast, you’re only running 20-30min at a pace you should be able to hold for an hour. Always finish feeling like you could go another 10minutes.
30minutes is probably a good cap for most tempo runs. It allows for a good traiing stimulus at threshold intensity without needing an excessive recovery. If your fitness shows that you can run a little faster then run a little faster.
running a couple longer tempos, say 45minutes, does help the ability to maintain focus during a longer run at effort like a 1/2mar so run a little longer occaisionally if you’re up for it, just remember you may have to take it a little easier during your next couple days of workouts.
Keith