Anyone have success with using a VASA trainer? Living in CA, I have lost easy access to pools for swimming and it is unlikely to change (local pool permanently shut down). For what it is worth, I am typically a front pack swimmer.
I used to have one (the mechanical one, not the one with the Erg electronics), had to give it up when I moved because of lack of space. FWIW, if I had the space, I would still use one. I’m a good swimmer and I saw benefits, especially for single arm drill focus. BTW it also helped my fly strength, set it up at a steep angle and really cranked the fly stroke hard.
I own the erg and find it really great for maintaining or even improving that neuromuscular swim fitness. You get a great workout from it and can focus on the catch and pull really well. Downside is its mainly muscular fitness, you cant rotate or do more dynamic form work with it. It does feel great, supremely better than bands. Its really the only way to train swim fitness well to a beneficial degree without a pool or endless pool
Lightheir on this forum has had a bunch of great threads and discussions on this. He is the reason i invested in a vasa a few months back
I owned one and returned it. Super overrated, imo. You can get the same effect from a set of bands. It’s nothing like swimming in water.
Paging Lightheir…
Anyone have success with using a VASA trainer? Living in CA, I have lost easy access to pools for swimming and it is unlikely to change (local pool permanently shut down). For what it is worth, I am typically a front pack swimmer.
I am a pretty crappy swimmer, but I found that Vasa helps me maintain the muscle memory during the winter. I am not sure if it’d make sense for a FOP swimmer but for someone like me it is not a bad option.
I’ve had a couple to a handful of athletes use these for 50-75+% of their total swim training. call it 3-6 athletes over the years
They didn’t swim any faster, in fact they probably swam slower even though their vasa + swim total hours were 10-15% > total hours of swim training. There’s a lot of subtle stuff you need to swim well that a vasa isn’t going to allow you to replicate.
I’ve had a couple to a handful of athletes use these for 50-75+% of their total swim training. call it 3-6 athletes over the years
They didn’t swim any faster, in fact they probably swam slower even though their vasa + swim total hours were 10-15% > total hours of swim training. There’s a lot of subtle stuff you need to swim well that a vasa isn’t going to allow you to replicate.
If they had not used the vasa, but did not change the total number of pool hours that season, would they have been able to maintain and improve their swimming? Did they improve at all in the bike or run during that season with the vasa?
The vasa is great because it saves huge amount of time and delivers fitness. Im sure the vasa freed tens of hours of time over a season for your ahletes
There’s never only one way. But of the many ways to maintain or improve swim fitness, the vasa ranks on the lower end of the list.
I bought one during the first part of the lockdown and used it a fair bit. I lost in terms of body position, nuance, etc., but I think I was far ahead of where I would’ve been with no swimming at all. It takes real work. Swimming is more fun. I’m going to be getting back to it to increase overall time spent on swim activities.
I’ve got the older mechanical one. I’m a MOP swimmer, on a good day I’ll do a 24min 1500 open water.
I found it massively helped, but only because of my personal circumstances in that I only swim 1-2 times a week due to time constraints, even pre pool closures. These swims are only about 2500m each. If I were were able to get to the water more then I’m sure that would be much better. It’s not a magic bullet but it’s better than nothing. Having it there makes it easy to just jump on, even for 5 minutes at a time, which I’ve found better than going a week without pulling a stroke.
I was fortunate enough to find a cheap one on eBay, but I’m sure bands could achieve a similar thing.
There’s never only one way. But of the many ways to maintain or improve swim fitness, the vasa ranks on the lower end of the list.
I’m doubtful many want to improve significantly with it, more the appeal is convenience and time savings. I have had a VASA for 4yrs, but don’t use it much … I find it even less fun and more uncomfortable than swimming, which is saying something. There are some anecdotes on the forum of some people using it for close to all their swimming and doing well. I suspect whether one could do same depends on individual factors. In my case I struggle with swimming largely because I sit low in the water and create too much drag. VASA can’t address that and might make it worse. OTOH, it definitely can help develop a catch and/or swim specific fitness.
I’ve had a couple to a handful of athletes use these for 50-75+% of their total swim training. call it 3-6 athletes over the years
They didn’t swim any faster, in fact they probably swam slower even though their vasa + swim total hours were 10-15% > total hours of swim training. There’s a lot of subtle stuff you need to swim well that a vasa isn’t going to allow you to replicate.
If they had not used the vasa, but did not change the total number of pool hours that season, would they have been able to maintain and improve their swimming? Did they improve at all in the bike or run during that season with the vasa?
The vasa is great because it saves huge amount of time and delivers fitness. Im sure the vasa freed tens of hours of time over a season for your ahletes
But what fitness is it delivering? Is it sport specific? Is it going to help you generate more force/pull more water on each stroke? If the answer is no it’s not going to do than then you’re not going to swim faster.
Swimming is about the pitch of your hand, your feel for the water, the timing of your kick to initiate your stroke, just bc you’ve done 15% more total swim like hours doesn’t mean you’re going to swim faster.
As far as bike & run times FTP’s went up, races didn’t take as long, people had to add to their usual 1h run route bc that only took them 57:45 by season end. That’s also bc they rode 5-8k miles & ran 1400-2000 miles.
If they did 700h/yr and 25% of that was swimming, that’s ~175h of swimming. If they add 40h of vasa and subtract 15h of actual pool time and don’t swim as fast I think I’d rather have them sit on the couch playing video games or reading vs reduce pool time while adding vasa time. Recovery is an important (and often overlooked) component of training. There has never nor will there be a race where it’s better to swim 31:30 instead of 30:10.
This isn’t to say don’t add vasa training in. Just don’t expect it to revolutionize your training and racing or think it’s a substitute for learning how to pitch your hands in the water to pull more water, or use your kick to start your swim stroke, or learn how to change your stroke to match water conditions.
i “swim” almost exclusively on a vasa as water is just not that accessible to me. 1 vasa at my remote work location and one where i live.
it makes you stronger, it does not necessarily make you faster. it can not teach you technique and feedback of the water. it cant teach you balance in the water. you really cant roll that well on it. i used to roll up a towel or use a noodle under the centerline of my body but thats not comfortable so i ditched it.
physique wise it def makes you stronger and builds muscles, but for someone thats not a great swimmer (myself) its not going to teach you the things that really matter in the water which is your form.
that said, i love the fact that i can do anything at all in the absence of readily available water / actual swim time.
Thanks for your response desert dude. This I do agree with, there’s many very critical things that the vasa does nothing for, all really revolving around water feel, which requires a lot of time in the water to develop and maintain.
The vasa can best be described as maintaining or building the muscle fitness in the absence of water. My arms and back don’t feel like a lactated, unused mess with the support of the vasa. But, if a pool is readily available and isn’t a task to use, then there’s certainly no substitute, especially for someone at or looking to be a FOP
i “swim” almost exclusively on a vasa as water is just not that accessible to me. 1 vasa at my remote work location and one where i live.
it makes you stronger, it does not necessarily make you faster. it can not teach you technique and feedback of the water. it cant teach you balance in the water. you really cant roll that well on it. i used to roll up a towel or use a noodle under the centerline of my body but thats not comfortable so i ditched it.
physique wise it def makes you stronger and builds muscles, but for someone thats not a great swimmer (myself) its not going to teach you the things that really matter in the water which is your form.
that said, i love the fact that i can do anything at all in the absence of readily available water / actual swim time.
This best sums it up I would say!
The one big issue of VASA is its cost: it’s bloody expensive; a rower with the same amount of hardware and technology stays in the 500-800$ range. Would it be more reasonably priced, people with limited pool access would buy it with less hesitation. 2 swim sessions + 2 vasa sessions per week is still better than 2 swim sessions alone
I had the ERG model. People criticize and say it’s not like real swimming but my Vasa pace per 100/M was almost exactly the same as my pool pace.
Down side for me. It was very boring and I didn’t like laying on my chest.
The one big issue of VASA is its cost: it’s bloody expensive; a rower with the same amount of hardware and technology stays in the 500-800$ range. Would it be more reasonably priced, people with limited pool access would buy it with less hesitation. 2 swim sessions + 2 vasa sessions per week is still better than 2 swim sessions alone
It’s expensive, but honestly, in the grand scheme of things, it’s actually arguably NOT expensive.
$2000 for a machine that you can use for years with minimal upkeep and next-to-no maintenance costs (I had to replace the cables in mine after 4 years, $60). Use it for years and do the math. If you have great pool access, then no need for one, but it’s a godsend for anyone who has problems with pool access or scheduling for it.
@desertdude - Vasa excels at swim-specific muscular endurance. That is literally what it is made for, and really works - I literally feel it during swim sessions!
To all the folks who say it doesn’t work - I’d heartily disagree. I went 6 months+ during the COVID lockdown, with only one measly 30 minutes OWS during that whole time, but kept up ‘easy-moderate effort’ Vasa erg about 2-3hrs/wk. I lost nothing when I came back. Seriously, if you wiped my memory, I bet I wouldn’t have even been able to tell that I’d just spent 6 months of zero pool swimming during that first swim back - it was as if COVID never existed for me! No loss of ‘feel for the water’ that everyone keeps crowing about and my swim speed was the same pre-COVID, even at distance. (Quit my YMCA membership as a result!)
I see the erg like a swim-ability ‘backstop’. Prevents you from backsliding in swim ability (it seems to be REALLY good at this, at least for me!) And when finally commit to pool time for real improvement, it allows for higher quality sessions and more training of swim movements at intensity as a pool supplement.
I use an old Nordic Track ski machine. $50 from Craigslist. I’ve seen them as low as $20 and even free. The hand cables work great for a dryland swim exercise, to keep swim muscles in shape. Resistance is infinite, so you can dial in some great sets, with more resistance than you’ll ever get in the water. Heck you can crank it down to the point you can’t move it. I used mine over the summer when the pools were closed (March-July), and when they opened back up, it took about 2 weeks to get back to where I was. I raced an oly tri in August, was 5th out of the water, and won my age group, so it did its job during the lock down. Video example
Lightheir has a point, the vasa is expensive but its quite a simple machine. Vasa has replacement parts available for every piece, though mainly its just wear and tear on the cords that need replacing after years of use. Theres really nothing that can break in the unit and it requires no maintenance or lubing. I foresee mine lasting decades. The erg i own is the old one, its 12 years old, but it looks and feels brand new (and vasa still supports it)
Lightheir probably has the most experience out of anyone with the vasa. He made me a fanboy, i really do enjoy the unit.
Dean’s use of the ski machine is another way you can supplement swimming for those that cant find a vasa