I wanted to throw a couple comments out there for your evaluation and response in reply and continuation to the post about St. Anthonys being dangerous:
Team in Training has brought a lot of new athletes into the sport: That’s good.
Team in Training has a cadre’ of individuals who are referred to as “coaches” who assist participants in achieving their goal. These people are not all qualified “coaches”. That is bad.
May I suggest that one thing missing from the Team in Training concept is a “testing phase” that educates and tests new athletes on remedial swimming, biking and riding skills so as to not pose a hazard to other athletes in a race. The TNT athletes would go through the testing phase, learn transitions, riding a straight line, anti-drafting etiquette, how to go through an aid station properly, etc. before they do their first race. This would enhance their enjoyment of the race and the quality of their expereince.
Remember, we were all new at this once, and we were all that person who was “in the way”. In my first triathlon back in the early '80s I was second from last. In junior high school I was in a special education gym class.
Overall, TNT has been an enormous boon to the sport and endurance sports in general. Are there drawbacks? Certainly. But it is head and shoulders above any “system” we had before to bring people into the sport. It just needs some minor improvement.
My thoughts are Triathlons need to change their format from age group races to ability/predicted time races. You can still have age group categories for awards, just don’t start the race by age group categories. This would solve one of the biggest problems TNT and other oganizations have caused IMO.
That’s a good idea but imagine the logistical challenges of trying to actually administer an event this way. Race directors have too many problems already!
I wish they would have a mandatory meeting at every race just to say stay to the right pass on the left. I can’t believe how many newbies don’t know this. It should also be sent with all conformation. I always have to slow down for people riding in the middle or on the left. Also how about a heat for: " I don’t care about placing I just want to finish and do a race" This would let them go last and ride together etc.
It isn’t much harder, if at all. I mean we have computers these days don’t we. I did 2 triathlons this past year that were done this way and they seemed to work out just fine. Basically they asked for 4 pieces of info. Predicted swim time, bike time, run time and if this was your first triathlon. In one race I flatted and it took me about 11 minutes to fix. I couldn’t get my extenda valve off my flat tire and I didn’t have one on the new one. Just when I was about to give up, I gave it one last try and was able to get it off (woo). Giving up 11 minutes though was too much for me to get back in the game. I was in about 6th place when I flatted, I ended up in 29th. Having to pass many of the people who had passed me got sort of sketchy, since some were not that good on the bike (Three Loop Course).
If you remove of of the MOPers All the slow,all the Fat,just i general all of the people who will never win a race what will you have? A race no one will go to because if only the ELITE register and pay,the payback will be so low no one will come because of the purse
I don’t believe anyone is suggesting removing these “MOPers” as you say. We are basically saying to the Race director, look there is a problem and here is how you can fix it.
I have long thought that one way the solve the problem being discussed in this and the other thread on St Anthony’s is to do the waves based on ability. It really wouldn’t/shouldn’t be that hard to do through USAT. Their data base could keep track of performance and you are assigned a ranking, say 1-10, and that is the wave you are in. Sort of like we have Cat 1-5 + citizen divisions in cycling. The race director could combine or split the groups depending on the number in the race. Would this system be perfect, no. But I would argue that it would be much safer and would be possibly even easier to administer. What do you think?
Uh… As an “independent” newbie I was not required to undergo any testing. As far as i know, the only thing it takes to quailify for these triathlons is money in hand, and the patience to sign up. I’m pretty tired of people trying to decide if others deserve to be in the race.
Team in training is also not something you qualify for… a sh!tload of money begged, borrowed or stolen? from your friends, co-workers and family gets you your race entry, 100 new best friends, and some handsome purple attire. I don’t think that they will soon be turning people away who can’t do a track stand!
I believe clm in sf has worked to get a separate heat for the TNTers. That pleases everyone as long as it’s couched in terms like “so they can participate together and cheer one another on” instead of “so those purple freaks get the f… out of my way.” Those of you who want to change things in your local races might consider talking to her and doing something constructive.
This isn’t a local problem. It is a triathlon problem. IMO age group starts don’t work for promoting safe triathlons anymore when you have large numbers of first timers competing.
I believe clm in sf has worked to get a separate heat for the TNTers. That pleases everyone as long as it’s couched in terms like “so they can participate together and cheer one another on” instead of “so those purple freaks get the f… out of my way.”<<
Yes, after Wildflower Olympic 2002, my (among others) vociferous complaining got a separate, last wave start for TNT. As a Master’s woman, I’m almost always in one of the last waves and it means passing lots and lots of people on the bike.
My other rub w/TNT is that once they "graduate from TNT, they join the local tri club and still expect to have everything spoon fed to them. “Why don’t you have a training program for XYZ triathlon where you even wipe my butt for me?” OK, not quite that bad, but almost. Yo, that’s what PAYING a certified coach is for.
Also, I have a friend here who works (or did) with TNT. She swears they teach them the rules REGULARLY, both in print and during the training sessions, but that when they get into a race, they become brain dead.
That is a good thought but I beleive it is treating the problem symptomatically. The issue is there are new athletes coming into the sport at a tremendous rate who want, but may lack, technical skills and race experience. TNT tries to provide this framework. IMHO it sometimes gets lost in the execution. Some TNT networks or “cells” have done a good job, others less so. With the size of the organization maybe it is time for a nationwide TNT race series, open to first time TNT people only, and strictly for the purpose of learning (teaching) skills, developing safe, courteous racing habits, etc. Even the Romans had schools for Gladiators. The races could be the culmination or graduation from a prescribed (by Leukimia Society, TNT)curriculum of racing skill instruction. That way, the first timers have been exposed to all the technical skills they need prior to their first event, and the opposrtunity to practice them in a group setting. This is an opportunity to produce a new generation of highly proficient entry level athletes. Just throwing them into their own wave seems fraught with irresponsibility. It could be carnage. As an organization, I think TNT has to take greater responsibily for and accountability about preparing their athletes, not just running them around for a few months, giving them a purple shirt and saying “Go Team!”.
For what it’s worth, I did my first tri at Clermont as part of their spring series last year. Their solution was to have all first-timers go off in the same wave, which happened to be the last wave. Aside from the fact that we didn’t muck up the course for those behind us, we got to “race” amongst ourselves, so some of us got some hardware, plus we got to pass some folks in the waves in front of us.
As a Master’s woman, I’m almost always in one of the last waves and it means passing lots and lots of people on the bike.
Ditto.
I really didn’t think much about this (or maybe much else for that matter) 22 yrs ago when I started tris; but, as a master who is occasionally “1st overall master” (this may be ending very soon!) and usually starting in one of the later waves I think the sport is the most dangerous that I have ever seen it. I don’t necessarily blame it on any one thing or group. I just think our thinking needs to “evolve” to handle the present facts. The bike element in the middle simply brings up concerns that other public sports don’t have and it needs to be addressed better. Again, that is why I am for waves by some form of standardized seeding system.
Heck, I love all the newcomers and think that it is good for the sport - we just need to make it organized, fair, and safe.
I agree with this entirely. I think it further reinforces the need for some form of “pre-race” or instructional event conducted by TNT for TNT and all entry level athletes for that matter. In the U.S. Army the pass rate for their Ranger school was extremely poor due to the difficulty of the course. The Army recognized this and instituted a program called the “Ranger Indoctrination Program” or “R.I.P.”. This was a “Pre-Ranger” school that gave people the “heads-up” going into Ranger school. Guys who went through R.I.P. knew what to expect and usually did much better than guys from the academies who were used to food and sleep, very little of which you see in Ranger School. TNT needs a “Pre-Race” indoctrination phase where athletes learn the techiques and courtesies of racing. Then they would be “model” athletes in conduct, sportmanship, technique and skills. Imagine a huge influx of technically proficient new athletes into our sport. More races, more athletes, more fun- more bike sales for me:)
Some races have more representatives from TNT than others… those of you who enter those races should work with your RDs and TNT to make the races as safe and fun for all competitors as possible. If St. Anthony’s needs some work, than those of you in Florida (or who travel to the race annually) should take on some responsibility.
If you think all tris should be finish-time seeded then write to USAT. Have all of your friends write to USAT. I think it’s a great idea and I’d be happy to sign your petition.
I wasn’t trying to say it’s a local problem. I’m trying to say if you see a problem, do something about fixing it–at least in those races where it pertains to you. Triathlon is supposed to be a “grass roots” sport, and we should welcome new competitors and well as new ideas on how the competition should be run. If you’ve got better ideas, then let them be heard. Ranting on the forum doesn’t accomplish a lot—with a lot of the slowtwitch audience, you are just preaching to the choir.
Two thing’s that can be done: #1 is to email, ring or write the RD and let him know your concerns. But don’t just let him know your concerns, offer solutions as well. Do it in a constructive way. Don’t attack TNT or the RD for what has happened. Point it out, offer up other races as examples include a contact number or address if you have it. Be proactive not reactive.
#2 Go out and find your local TNT or even some newbies. Take some, all, a few to a parking lot then a grassy field. Teach them to corner, brake, get in and out of their pedals and pass safely. Then go to a field, teach them to bump shoulders and wheels, learn how hold onto your friends seatpost when going uphill etc. The take away is we have the ability, and I might say some of the responsibility since we will end up on the same course, to create change and improve the skills of new athletes, TNTers or not.