Right- What got the Vietnam vets spit on was people taking their politics to seourisly and being ass holes. To the soldier the mission is what they are doing. If you don’t support the mission then how can you support the troops? For the mission to fail the troops must fail.
I wonder if those same folks still care about the soldiers once they are home? IMO, much of the “support the troops” thing is just a political jibe that each side uses. The men are soldiers. Soldiers fight and die. It’s all part of being a soldier. IMO, the military does want to ensure that the soldiers die and fight for a good reason. After Vietnam, I think everyone realised that the soldiers’ deaths were not worth it, if you were going to half-ass the war from the political front.
-Human life is cheap and we are comfortable with that.
I think we can look around the world and notice that 3/4’s of the world is in poverty, and support your statement. Sometimes it seems difficult just to get peole to cherish the lives of those involved with them on a daily basis, let alone someone they will never meet.
People seemingly care about human life, as long as you define human life as “me and my loved ones”. When I say “care” I’m talking how people act, not what they say.
Genuinely caring about others, and doing something about it … is no easy task. It’s why so few do it. I honestly, and embarrassingly, admit that I don’t nearly do enough for others … people that legitimately could use my help. It is one aspect of my life (and my faith, to be honest) that I need to (and will)change.
Where does it say we have to finish what we started? especially if what we started is a massive clusterfuck?
And I can understand the soldier on the ground’s desire to finish the mission he has been given but when crafting foreign policy with global implications, those personal desires come in pretty low on the scale.
And my point is obvioulsy lost on you. Anyone who says we should leave simply because we are losing men is a fool. I have never held that position and I don’t know anyone who does. I do know a lot of people who think we should leave because we had no business being there in the first place.
Personally I agree that we had no business invading iraq but now that we have made that mistake we owe the people there to at least stay until we can give them some form of stability.
Sadly what will happen is that the so called “mission” (what is it today by the way?) will never be achieved. Dubya will get out of bed one day, read another bad headline and another bad poll and declare mission accomplished once again at which point we will pull our troops out, have a big parade and Iraq will sink into civil war.
The terrorists are being confronted and killed in Iraq. In a very positive move factions of al Qaida have attacked al Zarqawi (sp?) in defense of American and Iraqi military troops. (Or something like that - it was an intriguing news report a few days ago). This is the last stand for many international terrorists and the battle is being fought in Iraq. To deny victory is the worst mistake a general can make. We have diplomatic solutions we are working on in regards to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The last time I checked we have troops active in Afganistan and they have taught the Russians a hell of a lesson about how to win a war in that country.
And nobody has ever called you unpatriotic, just misguided. The unpatriotic claim is something that was invented to get sympathy and to appear victimized.
Oh, and about WMD I absoltly agree. We know it was there. We know it was used. Answering the Where is it question is something I would like to see happen on our terms.
We seem to have gone from one extreme to the other in our attitude towards the military in this country.
IN the early 70s people spat on soldiers and called them baby killers. Today its deemed unpatriotic or “anti soldier” to even question the validity of our flawed foreign policy.
There has to be a happy medium where we can respect the men and women in uniform and the difficult jobs we ask them to do while at the same time being free to criticize unjust wars withou being labelled a traitor.
WTF?!? When has Bush EVER reacted to a poll in that way? He has gone out of his way to say that this will be a long hard process and one that cannot be dictated by daily polls. I think you are thinking of the wrong President…
**I wonder if the people that seem to want to bring the troops home NOW have given consideration to the fact that many troops would like to see the mission finished. This is what they have trained for. If protecting our troops at all costs were to be the way the military operated, there would be no training and no point of even having a military. Yes there is risk involved in the armed forces, and of course EVERY life lost is tragic. The world keeps spinning. **
Leave it alone, A. You’re wasting your breath and your valuable time. But then again, so am I.
Hey!! I better get back to work. We’re almost bankrupt as a company, and I’m sitting here, on my lunch, typing this stuff and not at the pool, swimming 40-gazillion yards
"There has to be a happy medium where we can respect the men and women in uniform and the difficult jobs we ask them to do while at the same time being free to criticize unjust wars withou being labelled a traitor. "
I thought people spat of Vietnam vet soldiers because of their actions (real or percieved) in the field. In other words the whole “baby killer” and associated type things. I don’t think people spat on soldiers because they did not agree with the mission to preven the spread of communism.
We have to be carefult not to blend issues.
We have already seen an instance in Iraq, where the soldier shot the guy that was playing dead (who turned out to be unarmed), the day after a similar event killed American soldiers. Many people were very critical of this soldier … people that, I like to point out, have very little if any military experience. Those people may still support the troops and the mission.
**The terrorists are being confronted and killed in Iraq. **
They are bringing the fight to us - I’d prefer we took the fight to them. (Not that it matters to you, but most of the everyday Iraqis would prefer this as well.)
In a very positive move factions of al Qaida have attacked al Zarqawi (sp?) in defense of American and Iraqi military troops. (Or something like that - it was an intriguing news report a few days ago).
WTF??? You sound like Pres. Bush on an impromptu interview.
This is the last stand for many international terrorists and the battle is being fought in Iraq. To deny victory is the worst mistake a general can make.
Have you been speaking to your friend Dick Cheney lately? Mark this day on your calendar and remind me in a year about this “last stand”.
We have diplomatic solutions we are working on in regards to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
I wish I was speaking to Cheney recently. He’d be a fun guy to have a beer with. I did get a card in the mail from Bush last week, but that was a note of congrats regarding my wedding. We save the policy chats for face to face meetings
Seriously, why would you think we can have this wrapped up on a day of the calendar. This is a monumental task. We are taking on an army that wears no uniform, has no country to call it’s own, honors no treaty, respects no defined battlefield and that plays by no rules. I am suprised it is going as well as it is. How long did it take McArthur to reclaim the Philpines?
No actually those are my own thoughts. My days are generally happier when I add my own Reagan soundtrack to keep things in perspective. It helps smooth the edges you know…
Here is an Iraqi’s words, from that article I posted:
Following al-Qa’eda’s seizure of the main buildings a number of residents fled. Arkan Salim, 56, who left with his wife and four children, said: "We thought they were patriotic. Now we discovered that they are sick and crazy.
“They interfered in everything, even how we raise our children. They turned the city into hell, and we cannot live in it anymore.”
I dunno who told you that the Telegraph is a liberal paper but they are sorely misinformed. The UK has a couple of pretty good “liberal” newspapers if you like labels, the Guardian and the Independent spring to mind but the Telegraph is most definitely a little if not a lot, to the right of center.
If you criticize the mission you are infact criticizing the troops. There is nothing wrong with that. I have stated clearly that you can love and care for the troops and not support them.
The mission that is going down right now would not be possible with out the troops. So how is it possible to support those who are doing an action you don’t support.
Stop being so goddamned worried about how others see you and say…
“I don’t support the war or the actions of our troops but i want them home and safe now.”
Howbout this, “I don’t support the war, I feel sorry for our troops, and I don’t want them home until they fix the mess their Commander-In-Chief created.”
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