I already know what my winter project will be: run speed over shorter distances. I recently ran the run in an OLY in 45:10, and did a lifetime-best 5 mile run in 34:52. I figure I’m 2-3 minutes short of a standalone 40 min 10k. Running frequency (5 + times/wk) and weight loss got me this far. What kind of work do I need to do to get these last few minutes off? Tempo? Track? 3,000 bottle rockets taped to myself?
I would say it probably depends on whether you have good legspeed or not. if not, work up to 2x20 min @ at tempo/HM pace with 10-15 min recovery between them (do this workout once a week). That workout has helped me build strength in the past.
If it’s a leg speed issue, I’m not sure (since I ran the 400 in college and that was never a limiter for me)
-Dave
run…a lot…preferably at the lakefront…in January…when it’s -25…
I made a sub-40 10k a primary goal this season, and I did two things to successfully accomplish it: I doubled my run volume - not too difficult considering I was only running about 700 miles/year. I bought Pfitzingers’ Road Racing for Serious Runners and followed his 10k plan for 25-40 mpw runners.
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Train with better runners. At the race, hang onto one of those fast weasels and do not let go!
some factors to consider: running cadence, running efficiency are also going to play a role.
I hav a 10K in about 3 weeks and I will try to hit a sub 40min.
Since the beginning of the year I have done 3 (maybe 4) speed/tempo type runs (2 X 3 KMS @ 4:30/KM) + a standalone 1/2 Mary (well I did 6 hours of training the two days before) in 1:41 min a month before a standlone 1/2 mary (and those were my only “speed/tempo” runs I did in 5 months). However I tried to run 5 to 7 times a week (with double days).
I ended up hitting 1:35 on a standalone Mary (well kind of standalone since I biked 1H45 before the 1/2 Mary & it ended up being a low volume week of 10 hours). Since then I kept running and running (for IMLP07) but no speed/tempo. I just started resuming running after IMLP07 and we will see.
However, @ the beginning of the year I did a lot of base while increasing my cadence to 81/82 and my running efficiency… I was going as fast as a turtle and it was “painful” but it paid off… we will see if I can hit that 40min 10K with probably 1 (maybe 2) speed/tempo runs I mentioned above.
Fred.
what would you say is good legspeed? My run cadence is typically 85-90. Seems a bit faster when I brick- like my legs want to go, but don’t have the oomph to stretch out, so its made up by a faster turnover. This has really only been happening the past 4-6 weeks- one day, I was about 45 sec/mile faster (no newtons either).
The guy who runs our track workouts for TCSD says plyo’s (high knees, butt kick’s and one other that I cant explain) really helped him run a sub 4min mile in HS. Probably some translation over to 10K.
Tempo runs and track workouts would be a good idea.
Longer tempo at just over 10k (like 5 secs over 10k race pace)
track workouts- my husband would say 800s and mile repeats at faster than 5k pace
If you have 3 weeks, you’re gonna be pushing it, but here would be the plan from hubby that he gave me (I cracked 42 though… considering I am not a distance runner by nature…I was pleased)
week 2 & 3:
S- Long run 10-12 mi
M- recovery 5
T- Speedwork (I would do 2 weeks of over distance tempo, 7-8 miles)
W- off or xtrain
H- Hills
F- recovery
S- med/long run
Week 1- same but on the speedwork, I’d do a track workout or a fartlek of equal times (4-5 miles worth of 800s or mile repeats, or equivalent on running to your goal time… 40 minutes… do 5 on 5 off 8 times…)
Week of race
S- long run 10 mi
M- recovery 5
T- shortened speedwork (either track work or fartlek, but instead of 4-5 miles worth, do 2 miles worth w/ good warm up and cool down)
H- off
F- ez jog of 3-5
S- race
GOOD LUCK! This plan has worked for him forever (he’s a 5x All American and ran at U of Arkansas; is 35 and does a 31 min 10k, and 1:08 1/2 Mary…i give you that to tell you it is not just me coming up with it at random.) Has helped me too!
thanks- this may be the ticket at the end, but I think it’ll take longer than a few weeks to get there.
If it’s a leg speed issue, I’m not sure (since I ran the 400 in college and that was never a limiter for me)
400 = OUCH!
Wow…what can I say…plyometrics, track workouts and higher cadence are NOT the issue. Neither is “leg speed.” Do a search for the posts by desert dude and Barry Pollock on this forum for some actual good advice. Check out the “can a 7:30 mile become a 5:30 mile” thread. I can’t believe anyone would suggest that you start doing track intervals with no information about what kind of volume you are running, proximity of your next race and anything about your running history at all.
Sounds like you have good frequency with 5 runs per week. How about mileage? How long have you been running?
Mike
Ha! Thanks for the plug Mike. ; ^ )
There’s a link to some stuff I wrote on my sig-line.
Speedwork (stuff faster than 3k race pace) and plyos are beneficial but only account for a small fraction of your overall time. The top three factors that will get you where you hope to be are the following (in order):
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Total number if easy miles run over the next year.
This is best accomplished by running at 1-2 minutes slower than current 10K race pace and running lots of shorter runs.
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Amount of consistent tempo running over the next year.
Give yourself 4-6 weeks to focus on building mileage and then phase in a tempo run once a week. This is simply a 20-30 minute run (start with 20, work toward 30) at roughly 1 hour race pace. For you, that’ll be about 10 seconds a mile slower than current 10K race pace. Do this once a week (twice if you are feeling good).
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A decent amount of interval training in the 2 months prior to your goal race.
4-6K of intervals will drop the last 60 seconds of of your time. This doesn’t necesarily mean that you’ll run 60 seconds faster than you can today. What it means is whatever shape you are in before you start doing these, you can expect to improve by about a minute after 2 months. The effects are huge, but short term. If you were to begin doing them today and do them once a week all winter, you’d simply gain your 60 seconds in the first two months and the plataeau. In the mean time you aren’t able to do as much #1 or #2.
The intervals should be 3-4 minutes in length (800s or 1000s are good) with 2-3 minute jogs in between (400m is good). The intervals should be done at just under 5K pace. If you can’t go immediately into a jog after each one, then you are running them too fast.
Other than that, make sure you get in 1 long run a week of 90-110 minutes.
Give yourself some realistic mileage goals of the winter. If you’ve been running 30 miles a week. Shoot for consitent 35-40 miles a week. That alone will account for the bulk of your improvement.
Good luck.
I’ve never really thought about a rigorous definition of leg speed. Usually we talk about leg speed as being how quick/fast you are while running quickly but staying relaxed. So I guess what I’m getting at is: can you easily break 30 for a 200? And can you maintain a reasonable cadence without discomfort?
Are you doing any strides? I’d start with 4 strides after easy runs 2x per week, about 100 meters each with a walk back recovery, and increase the speed slighty with each one. The goal is to feel quick and fast and like you’re floating over the ground. At any point if you’re grimacing or trying to muscle through it then you’re going too hard.
Let me know if any of that isnt clear and I can explain it a bit better
-Dave
thanks Barry (and Mike P). I just got another data point this morning. I ran the 2-mile run for the Army physical fitness test in 12:47. I went out a bit hard, as 1st mile was 6:17, 2nd was 6:30, and it was all I had. A week ago, I ran 5 miles in 34:52; again, all I had- blown out and slowing down (7:09) the last mile. I’ve been training for my 1st IM, and have averaged 30-35 MPW all summer. I ran a marathon in late May in 3:47; was up to 45 MPW then.
Most of my improvement this year has come from consistency (a shitty run week is 4 runs, about 27/28 miles for the week) and weight loss- I’ve dropped 21 # since January (5’8", 158#). I’ve run in some form most of my life, but only when necessary while on active duty- I used to lift, and will never have the true runner’s physique (my wife tells me I look skinny and underfed; I weighed 195# when we met). This is my 3rd season in longer distance tri.
I’d definitely be interested in some run coaching over the winter; PM me if you can take on another. Thanks!
No doubt about that, but I find it mentally much easier to run sprints that tris or longer road races. Just work yourself into a state to deal with alot of pain for a short time, and that’s it. I think it’s much more impressive to be able to really push hard for longer races
-Dave