I finally got around to writing up a review of sorts of my experience at Brain Stover and Heath Dotson’s AeroCamp at the A2 Wind Tunnel. This was my first time in a wind tunnel so I had no idea what to expect. My prep-work consisted of reading James Haycraft’s write up here. The short version - I learned a lot and I’m a bit more aero now. Hit this if you want more details.
Thanks,
Mark
12 watts is 3 minutes 30 seconds, maybe, over 112mi
not the 8’30" you claimed.
edit: with the .02 you saved in CdA I think you saved 20 watts, not 12, and that would be around 6 minutes over 180km.
Best bike split shifts by about 5’15" if I add 11 watts to my target power.
I think your goal for 2016 should be to address the overall bike position. From the (admittedly unfair) pictures in your blog I think there’s quite a bit of low hanging fruit, as Brian likes to say.
I didn’t do the math. The numbers came from the spreadsheet that A2 provided.
Also depends on the conditions, course, and power range 
Going from 200 to 212 bigger impact than going from 300 to 312 etc.
Yeah, I should have clarified my statement…
I finally got around to writing up a review of sorts of my experience at Brain Stover and Heath Dotson’s AeroCamp at the A2 Wind Tunnel. This was my first time in a wind tunnel so I had no idea what to expect. My prep-work consisted of reading James Haycraft’s write up here. The short version - I learned a lot and I’m a bit more aero now. Hit this if you want more details.
Thanks,
Mark
Must be a pretty smart guy!!! 
Ha no problemo. Wish I could get 12 watts… at my current FTP it might be a huge time difference
thanks for the report. Sounds fun
$ 1000
Of all the prices we BS ourselves is ‘worth it’ this is a tough pill to swallow lol.
for 1K I would want a RESULTS focused session, not a 2 HOUR imposed time limit.
7 watts to change into tighter clothing note to self
Of course this is a negative gut reaction to the THOUSAND DOLLAR 2 HOUR price tag, which to be honest kind of pisses me off.
Glad it worked out for you. And thanks for sharing.
did you test the P-09 with visor versus sunglasses ?
I think you’re missing the focus. Some people get a lot more, some people get way less. It is just relative. It’s easy to feel like what someone did was “wrong” but until you’ve been to the tunnel it’s not fair to assume anything about a particular tunnel session. It’s a very time crunched environment and you have to trust the people you’re with if you’re soliciting input.
I hear you. We can all 100% benefit from tunnel testing. I’m very curious myself…
$ 1000
Of all the prices we BS ourselves is ‘worth it’ this is a tough pill to swallow lol.
for 1K I would want a RESULTS focused session, not a 2 HOUR imposed time limit.
7 watts to change into tighter clothing note to self
Of course this is a negative gut reaction to the THOUSAND DOLLAR 2 HOUR price tag, which to be honest kind of pisses me off.
Glad it worked out for you. And thanks for sharing.
What, specifically, pisses you off about that price tag?
I don’t want to get into specifics, but Brian & Heath don’t run this camp for the purpose of turning a profit.
Wind tunnels are: very large operations that require a lot of money to power, have a high demand by high $$ industries (NASCAR), and are run by very intelligent, highly educated people.
$500/hr is not much more than a good lawyer costs (or way less, depending on your region).
For me, in my time at the wind tunnel, I recall that I earned half a season’s worth of “fitness” in the form of free speed. The cost of coaching to otherwise get me half a season’s worth of free speed far exceeds the cost of the wind tunnel. Mathematically:
.5*(annual TSS) + .5*(annual coaching cost) > $1000
$ 1000
Of all the prices we BS ourselves is ‘worth it’ this is a tough pill to swallow lol.
for 1K I would want a RESULTS focused session, not a 2 HOUR imposed time limit.
7 watts to change into tighter clothing note to self
Of course this is a negative gut reaction to the THOUSAND DOLLAR 2 HOUR price tag, which to be honest kind of pisses me off.
Glad it worked out for you. And thanks for sharing.
There’s no way you could or should run a wind tunnel on a charge by results basis. If done legitimately it would make income dependent on the starting standard of the candidates. They’d have to do a screening process to weed out anyone with an already reasonable position (i.e. marginal gains would be uneconomical for the operators to indulge) and anyone who made big gains would end up paying a fortune, perhaps without any warning.
The costs of building and running a wind tunnel are significant, the labour costs of staff being a significant part of this. The running costs are time based (supervision, energy and maintenance).
I once spent about 5 weeks on my own playing with a wind tunnel. It wasn’t bike related, it was an aerospace research project for my MSc. I shudder to think what it would have cost if I had to pay for it! Probably amounted to 80-100hrs of tunnel time, 90% set-up and 10% execution perhaps.
No; my personal preference is glasses over the visor. Even if it was faster, I would still wear glasses. Brian or Heath may have some data on that.
Right. Some people we take in there are very insensitive to changes. With others we are able to make some huge improvements. What you are buying is two-fold, speed and information.
For example, Mark tried on a few different suits. One that has been the clear winner for others, was not for him. The one he chose was the fastest for his body type and position. So now he has A. The fastest suit currently available for him B. Saved money by not having to go purchase what has trended faster which would actually be slower.
We also have tested people where basically all the changes made zero difference in drag. The up side to this was we found this particular athlete could run 4 round bottles on their bike and basically carry all their fluids they needed for an IM. This was important since this person was extremely sensitive to the on-course nutrition and this would keep them from have to make a stop at special needs.
Another thing to point out about Mark was that he’d already read from top to bottom the AeroCamp threads and done what he could to get as aero as possible before he came in. The LG helmet was fastest and his position was pretty dialed in already. There was not a whole lot of fruit on the tree, unfortunately.
As to the price. It is not cheap. We make very little money doing this, but it definitely something we enjoy doing. My argument is always, you can buy a new set of wheels for $3000 that are likely a watt faster or you can spend $1000 for 2 hours and potential save significantly more. One is made out of carbon and you can show it off to your friends, the other is something you can’t touch and show off but is potentially worth a podium or a Kona slot.
Another thing to point out about Mark was that he’d already read from top to bottom the AeroCamp threads and done what he could to get as aero as possible before he came in. The LG helmet was fastest and his position was pretty dialed in already. There was not a whole lot of fruit on the tree, unfortunately.
Yea that’s fair. I guess if I ever posted this picture:
I would not assume that my position was great simply due to the perspective of the picture itself.
To further this, the standard cost for testing at A2 is now $495 hour. This is without having anyone but the operator there. This means you bring a friend to wrench on your stuff and you have to come up with your own run list. So testing through AeroCamp gets both of us with eyes on the changes as well as the experience to make changes and maximise runs for basically the same price. At $8.33 minute the last thing you want to do is waste time.
Edit: Cost at LSWT in San Diego is somewhere around $1000/hr. I heard $800 thrown around as well, but I think that’s for a bulk rate.
$ 1000
Of all the prices we BS ourselves is ‘worth it’ this is a tough pill to swallow lol.
for 1K I would want a RESULTS focused session, not a 2 HOUR imposed time limit.
7 watts to change into tighter clothing note to self
Of course this is a negative gut reaction to the THOUSAND DOLLAR 2 HOUR price tag, which to be honest kind of pisses me off.
Glad it worked out for you. And thanks for sharing.
What, specifically, pisses you off about that price tag?
I don’t want to get into specifics, but Brian & Heath don’t run this camp for the purpose of turning a profit.
Wind tunnels are: very large operations that require a lot of money to power, have a high demand by high $$ industries (NASCAR), and are run by very intelligent, highly educated people.
$500/hr is not much more than a good lawyer costs (or way less, depending on your region).
For me, in my time at the wind tunnel, I recall that I earned half a season’s worth of “fitness” in the form of free speed. The cost of coaching to otherwise get me half a season’s worth of free speed far exceeds the cost of the wind tunnel. Mathematically:
.5*(annual TSS) + .5*(annual coaching cost) > $1000