I’m not American, but I obviously care about what goes on in our neighbours to the south. Kinda like a parent cares about a misbehaving child 
So Cheney is arguing that his office is not a part of the executive branch? Huh??? Someone please defend him, I’m dying to hear the rationale.
For the past 4 days the Washington Post has been running a series on Cheney’s amazing behind the scenes influence on policy. The man is a master.
Yeah, I saw that thread, but I’m wondering if anyone is actually going to stand up and defend Cheney on this one. Surely he wouldn’t just make a claim like this without some solid legal basis.
Would he??
Yeah, I saw that thread, but I’m wondering if anyone is actually going to stand up and defend Cheney on this one. Surely he wouldn’t just make a claim like this without some solid legal basis.
Would he??
This from an Administration whose lawyer(s) said if there isn’t damage to major organs, it isn’t torture.
You crack me up.
if there isn’t damage to major organs, it isn’t torture.
Which Branch issued that statement?
I’m not necessarily defending Cheney, but I imagine the rationale would be based on the fact that the VP serves as president of the Senate and can cast a vote there in the case of a tie. So one could regard the vice-presidential office as spanning the executive and legislative branches of the federal government. I’m not sure whether the Constitution defines the boundary between the two at all.
EDIT: Doing a search, I find these statements in the Constitution:
Article I: “All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.”
Article II: “The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.”
Neither statement mentions the VP, but since the VP functions in the Senate, perhaps one could indeed regard his office as legislative (unless someone can come up with other Constitutional statements to the contrary).
So one could regard the vice-presidential office as spanning the executive and legislative branches of the federal government.
So you are arguing that he IS part of the Executive branch, while simultaneously being part of the legislature. You need to come up with a better argument for your man Cheney to demonstrate that he is not part of the executive.
Again, I repeat, I’m not necessarily defending Cheney (he’s certainly not “my man”), and I think his position may be a stretch. But note the edit I added to my previous post. Even if his position is a stretch, it appears not to be entirely without basis.
"Article II: “The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.” "
Don’t forget that that portion of the Constitution goes on to say "He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected as follows. Additionally, the VP is the direct next in command should the President die, be removed or be unable to perform his duties, also mentioned in Art II. The President has duties that cross over into the Legislative Branch as well, including introducing bills, vetoing or signing them, etc, but no one is claiming he’s not in the Executive Branch.
The argument that the VP isn’t part of the Executive Branch is ridiculous, and not even most conservative media figures buy into it.
Ok, c’mon, didn’t you see the next sentence in Article II? Or did youleave it out because it hurt your argument?
The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected…
Dan and I had this arguement the other day, but it was centered around Arnold, and if he could run for VP… Dan believes that he could not, because you are electing him to be the runner up to the president, which of course there is an amendment prohibiting that.( being president). But then I added, what if he were to become a rep, and ended up speaker of the house?? Now you are 3rd in line to the pres, and what happens if the first two take a powder??? Dan then figures he would be ok to replace them then, because he was elected to the house, not the executive branch, and he could probably accept the rolldown…So if you follow his arguement, then Cheny is in the Executive branch, becuase that is what he was elected to… I really don’t know what the law says, I imagine it is not real clear cut on these scenarios yet, and will be decided in Bush’s new court. I can make a good guess which way they will see it. If Bush did anything right for his party, it was picking those two justices…
We live in strange times indeed if we really think it’s not clear cut that the VP is a member of the Executive Branch.
“Don’t forget that that portion of the Constitution goes on to say 'He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected as follows. Additionally, the VP is the direct next in command should the President die, be removed or be unable to perform his duties, also mentioned in Art II. The President has duties that cross over into the Legislative Branch as well, including introducing bills, vetoing or signing them, etc, but no one is claiming he’s not in the Executive Branch.”
First, you left out a closing quotation mark. Only the one sentence was taken verbatim from the Constitution. And that sentence doesn’t say that the president and vice-president share the executive power together; it merely specifies that they are elected as part of the same procedure and have the same term of office.
Yes, the president can send bills to Congress, and veto or sign them after they’re passed by Congress, but I don’t think you could call those legislative duties in the same sense as presiding over the Senate and voting there are.
“The argument that the VP isn’t part of the Executive Branch is ridiculous, and not even most conservative media figures buy into it.”
I don’t think most conservative media figures buy into the Constitution at all, except when it suits their purposes.
No, I left it out because, as I explained to slowguy, it’s irrelevant to the issue.
Interesting argument, Monty. How would you and Dan reconcile this statement:
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States,
at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President
That statement tends to make me think that Arnold could never become President, even if he were a representative and became Speaker, because by virtue of the Constitution’s express statement, he is never eligible to the office.
As far as Cheney, I think his argument is ridiculous.
“The Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution requires the vice president to meet the same eligibility requirements as the president” (Wikipedia). Too bad for Arnold.
Of course, if the fact that Cheney could succeed Bush made him part of the Executive Branch, then Nancy Pelosi would be part of the Executive Branch too!
"And that sentence doesn’t say that the president and vice-president share the executive power together; it merely specifies that they are elected as part of the same procedure and have the same term of office. "
Sorry, but if the process for electing the VP, the extent of his duties if the President dies, the means of removing him from office, etc, are all covered by Art II, then he’s part of the Executive Branch. You might notice there are any number of jobs not specifically mentioned by the Constitution that fall under the Executive Branch.
"Yes, the president can send bills to Congress, and veto or sign them after they’re passed by Congress, but I don’t think you could call those legislative duties in the same sense as presiding over the Senate and voting there are. "
Why not? He’s more involved in the legislative process, per the Constitution, than the VP. The VP only gets to vote in the Senate if there’s a tie. Other than that his job as President of the Senate is largely symbolic.
"I don’t think most conservative media figures buy into the Constitution at all, except when it suits their purposes. "
My point was that even those media figures who generally stand by the administration for anything, are not buying this argument.
But Rob, your man Cheney has been claiming executive privilege for years, and now he’s claiming that he isn’t part of the executive. Moreover, according to this article (contained in what is no doubt a left wing liberal rag) his office is claiming that he is in both the executive and the legislature. If he is in both, then doesn’t he have to comply with the rules and regulations of both?
ROTFLMFAO!! Rob, I never thought I would see the day where someone tried to claim Cheney was your boy!! That was quite possibly the funniest thing I have ever seen on the internet. I find it amazing the the ST sharks will strike at anyone who offers an opinion that could remotely be construed as ‘‘pro-Bush Admin.’’
I, on behalf of most of the posters on this forum, would like to think you for providing an unbiased and factual opinion on this subject. I guess we can all see what the consequences of that type of information is.