So lets say there are two states: Israel and Palestine. What then? Everybody happy? End of the war and peace and love? Palestine becomes prosperous and happy? In Yugoslavia we all wanted our own states. In Croatia we got what we wanted and so did Slovenia. Serbs waned big but got next to nothing. They are not happy but Serbia is doing ok. Any parallels to Palestine/Israel?
You’d have to ask the folks that want to wipe Israel off the map.
No,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_conflict
I see no hope for a long lasting peace. Both sides claim the same land as there own, both have legit arguments for why its their land.
Obviously a second sovereign homeland has the desired effect of making the Palestinians happy in that they have restored rights and a home without the police state of Israel controlling daily life. Does their animus as windy not so eloquently put it then go away? Probably never, as in your home country in the Balkans someone will always feel slighted. Blatantly Israel says no and is land grabbing the west bank and it appears they intend to raze Gaza and then rebuild there as annexed land once again and then they will probably throw up every road block imaginable to disincentivize the return of the Arab Gazans
Both sides will need some carrots never promised before to reach agreement. The carrot to Palestine is a contiguous border ( no corridor) homeland to defend and call home. The carrot I would give Israel, seeing as how they cower in perpetual fear of rockets being thrown their way, and it is pretty certain that will be an eventuality, is to then give them the the option then of engaging all out war against any and all comers in the region if the threat is realized in some level marked as crossing the red line, sorta like the atrocity of 10/7. We then back away as an ally, and become an arms dealer only. if Israel is victorious again, then all the occupied land: Golan, west bank and Gaza would be theirs and the defeated Palestinians then join the Syrians to become the permanent refugees and Jordan and Saudi Arabia and Lebanon are left holding the bag to resolve their 21 century Bedouin Palestinians. Kinda like a dirty Harry make my day ultimatum if you will.
The Negev is often ignored as it does have Israeli nuclear facilities but I don’t think it should be ruled out in the barter of how boundaries are drawn. Jerusalem remains in an independent city state owned by no one, visited by all, lived in by those with death wish because the peace keeping forces will never keep the peace. I could think that the latitude line intersecting Jerusalem could be worked out as a border with Israel taking the south and the Palestinians taking the north.
I think a 2SS is a start, but I have little hope of it bringing lasting peace if both sides are not closely babysat for a long time. I also believe that neither will permit itself to endure an international babysitter. The UN tried this in the 70’s-80’s in the north.
I believe that Zealots inside either side, will forever claim territory, antagonize the other, claim aggrieved status and then send rockets, which will be responded to by tanks and 2klb. j-dams. If Palestine were to receive recognized State status, they would demand the ability to defend themselves, and require an official military. Then things go boom again. If the Israelis agree to territorial borders, then violate the agreements… Boom again.
Even before this latest catastrophe began in October, Hezbollah and Hamas occasionally sent rockets from Lebanon to Israel for what they deemed an offense, or as a reminder that they are still there. Israel retaliated. Things calm for awhile. Zealots acquire weapons, the other side responds/defends as they wish to call it.
It ends when the weapons and bulldozers stop coming, and Zealotry turns to peaceful acceptance. I don’t see this happening… At least in my lifetime. Photos of Gaza will forever fuel hatred, and dead 1000 Israelis will reciprocate the hate.
I pray that I am wrong.
I think a 2SS is a start, but I have little hope of it bringing lasting peace if both sides are not closely babysat for a long time. I also believe that neither will permit itself to endure an international babysitter. The UN tried this in the 70’s-80’s in the north.
I believe that Zealots inside either side, will forever claim territory, antagonize the other, claim aggrieved status and then send rockets, which will be responded to by tanks and 2klb. j-dams. If Palestine were to receive recognized State status, they would demand the ability to defend themselves, and require an official military. Then things go boom again. If the Israelis agree to territorial borders, then violate the agreements… Boom again.
Even before this latest catastrophe began in October, Hezbollah and Hamas occasionally sent rockets from Lebanon to Israel for what they deemed an offense, or as a reminder that they are still there. Israel retaliated. Things calm for awhile. Zealots acquire weapons, the other side responds/defends as they wish to call it.
It ends when the weapons and bulldozers stop coming, and Zealotry turns to peaceful acceptance. I don’t see this happening… At least in my lifetime. Photos of Gaza will forever fuel hatred, and dead 1000 Israelis will reciprocate the hate.
I pray that I am wrong.
Just to note, 139 countries in the UN (70%) recognize the Palestinian State. 165 (85%) recognize Israel.
Palestinians will always feel, justifiably, that over half their country was stolen from them. If Israel actually wanted peace, I believe Palestinian leaders could be found that would work towards peace along the lines of the 1967 borders/Resolution 242. I don’t think they will ever accept less than that. It was Israel that started the 1967 conflict and has held lands taken since then.
Or the Jewish hard right who wants the Palestinians cleansed from the region.
Your schtick is tiresome.
I am a bit more optimistic
In 1997 there were still parties on both sides of the good Friday agreement for whom it was too much or not enough.
Today, nearly 30 years on there is an entire generation who’ve known nothing but peace and those with extremist views are mostly an irrelevance.
Neither Hamas nor the far right government currently in place are representative of all of their respective populations and I am confident they could, with the right respective leadership come to a workable solution.
Or the Jewish hard right who wants the Palestinians cleansed from the region.
Your schtick is tiresome.
What are you talking about? The fact that there’s a hardline of Jewish politicians who believe committing ethnic cleansing is the solution to their problem. The fact you don’t recognise it, doesn’t make it less true. Your selective choice of facts doesn’t change the reality there are hardliners who want Palestinians wiped from the face of the earth. Do you think that’s ok?
Or the Jewish hard right who wants the Palestinians cleansed from the region.
Your schtick is tiresome.
All of you who feel sorry for the Palestinian Terrorists forget how this started. Just to remind you, it was with the raping and killing or Isreali women and children. And the taking of hostages who haven’t been returned.
I’m in favor of wiping out every Palestine Terrorist. And if you have to wipe out their supporters along with them then so be it.
It’s ridiculous that the Palestinians are painting themselves as the victims here.
So lets say there are two states: Israel and Palestine. What then? Everybody happy? End of the war and peace and love? Palestine becomes prosperous and happy? In Yugoslavia we all wanted our own states. In Croatia we got what we wanted and so did Slovenia. Serbs waned big but got next to nothing. They are not happy but Serbia is doing ok. Any parallels to Palestine/Israel?
If the Palestinians wanted a two state solution they could have had it. Bill Clinton negotiated the deal. Arafat wouldn’t commit to it.
So lets say there are two states: Israel and Palestine. What then? Everybody happy? End of the war and peace and love? Palestine becomes prosperous and happy? In Yugoslavia we all wanted our own states. In Croatia we got what we wanted and so did Slovenia. Serbs waned big but got next to nothing. They are not happy but Serbia is doing ok. Any parallels to Palestine/Israel?
If the Palestinians wanted a two state solution they could have had it. Bill Clinton negotiated the deal. Arafat wouldn’t commit to it.
Both sides agree they were making progress and Israel is the one that broke off negotiations.
Or the Jewish hard right who wants the Palestinians cleansed from the region.
Your schtick is tiresome.
Windy’s is too ignorant to discuss complex topics so schtick is all he has.
Last night I had a good talk with a friend who is heading over to Israel today to help rebuild one of the Kibbutz that was attacked last year. Here were his thoughts.
Remove Bibi. He said 70% of Israelis want him gone. Gantz just called for elections.
Remove remaining Hamas from Gaza. About 10,000. This will take months
Get the PA to govern Gaza with temporary Israeli help
Israeli hard right to return some of the land they illegally seized
Rebuild Gaza with a massive influx of aid from the globe
All massive undertakings. Gaza needs to have a legit government but there are zero options but the pathetic, and corrupt, PA.
Or the Jewish hard right who wants the Palestinians cleansed from the region.
Your schtick is tiresome.
All of you who feel sorry for the Palestinian Terrorists forget how this started. Just to remind you, it was with the raping and killing or Isreali women and children. And the taking of hostages who haven’t been returned.
I’m in favor of wiping out every Palestine Terrorist. And if you have to wipe out their supporters along with them then so be it.
It’s ridiculous that the Palestinians are painting themselves as the victims here.
First off, no one here feels sorry for Palestinian terrorists, so you can stop with that lie.
Second, you can’t bomb your way to destroying Hamas, just as the UK government couldn’t destroy the IRA. For every Hamas member you kill, if it involves killing ten innocent Palestinians, you will net increase the number of Hamas fighters in the future. The same would be true of you in your community if it were being attacked.
And how many dead Palestinians are ok? All of them? I’m pretty sure that if the TENS OF THOUSANDS of dead women and children in Gaza could speak, they would tell you that they are, indeed, victims.
Or the Jewish hard right who wants the Palestinians cleansed from the region.
Your schtick is tiresome.
Windy’s is too ignorant to discuss complex topics so schtick is all he has.
Last night I had a good talk with a friend who is heading over to Israel today to help rebuild one of the Kibbutz that was attacked last year. Here were his thoughts.
Remove Bibi. He said 70% of Israelis want him gone. Gantz just called for elections.
Remove remaining Hamas from Gaza. About 10,000. This will take months
Get the PA to govern Gaza with temporary Israeli help
Israeli hard right to return some of the land they illegally seized
Rebuild Gaza with a massive influx of aid from the globe
All massive undertakings. Gaza needs to have a legit government but there are zero options but the pathetic, and corrupt, PA.
Most of those are noble ideas. But how do you just “remove 10k Hamas fighters from Gaza in a few months?†Ask them politely?
And the chances of getting Israel to return stolen land is next to zero.
I’m in favor of wiping out every Palestine Terrorist. And if you have to wipe out their supporters along with them then so be it.
You’re describing genocide there, pretty much. Are children “supporters?” What about women who claim to support Hamas, but have never participated in violence? Line 'em up and mow 'em down for having incorrect thoughts?
Most of those are noble ideas. But how do you just “remove 10k Hamas fighters from Gaza in a few months?†Ask them politely?
Also I’m not sure there’s any hard dividing line between “Hamas fighter” and civilian. For example there are probably lots of kids working for Hamas running ammo around, doing logistics. They have not yet acted as true militants. But are just a year or two away from doing so. Are they considered “Hamas” even though they’ve been indoctrinated from birth and never had much chance?
My bong-smoking idea is a form of ethnic cleansing, but still preferable to the alternatives. Just evacuate Gaza, with the bulk going to Arab countries like Lebanon. And make Gaza a DMZ that Israel is not allowed to enter. Just a wasteland. So at some point in the future when the two sides are not mutually genocidal there can be talks. The Arab/Palestinians will never go for it because they’ll never trust the international community and Israel to not just shrug and annex the land to Israel. But I did say “bong smoking.”
I’m way too stupid to come up with any kind of solution of my own, but isn’t a two state deal a non starter as long as everyone wants the Dome of the Rock/ Temple Mount as part of their state?
I’m in favor of wiping out every Palestine Terrorist. And if you have to wipe out their supporters along with them then so be it.
It’s ridiculous that the Palestinians are painting themselves as the victims here.
Personally, I wouldn’t make the same argument Hamas would make to justify October 7th publicly, but sure go ahead and use the same argument Hamas would make.
You should just understand that if you are making an argument Hamas would make, you are not the good guy here.