Fantastic advice from coach Joel (as usual)
http://joelfilliol.blogspot.ca/2012/01/most-popular-post-on-this-blog-is-is.html
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Fantastic advice from coach Joel (as usual)
http://joelfilliol.blogspot.ca/...this-blog-is-is.html
I like his comment in #5 that “fast swimming is about rhythm and flow”. X1000 on that, I get in to a “state of flow” much more easily in the water than on the bike or run because there are so few distractions, and because you really are “flowing” through the water, if you’re doing it correctly. I love that feeling:)
Yes, I agree. It is the reason I am faster in open water (even without a wettie on) I get in the flow and my stroke improves
Yes, I agree. It is the reason I am faster in open water (even without a wettie on) I get in the flow and my stroke improves
Hmmm, can’t say that is true for me. I get a fair amount out of my turns so I’m sure I’m faster in the pool. I enjoy flips turns and streamlining off the wall. Also, in OW you have to worry about sighting as well as other swimmers not to mention snakes, sharks, etc. I do 99.9% of my swim training in the pool.
A pull quote from my next blog post:
“Swimming in a pool is like riding a trainer; it’s decent training, but it’s no substitute for the real thing.”
The guy who said that swam for the University of Texas before becoming a triathlete.
1/Practice
2/Practice
3/Practice
4/Practice
5/
6/
By now you should get the picture…
(BTW the same way you get good at everything)
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A pull quote from my next blog post:
“Swimming in a pool is like riding a trainer; it’s decent training, but it’s no substitute for the real thing.”
The guy who said that swam for the University of Texas before becoming a triathlete.
Hmmm, that is a polarizing statement to be sure.
hmm… this advice is very different from “Total Immersion” is it not?
A pull quote from my next blog post:
“Swimming in a pool is like riding a trainer; it’s decent training, but it’s no substitute for the real thing.”
The guy who said that swam for the University of Texas before becoming a triathlete.
Well, I think he’s in a minority as my understanding is most OW swimmers do most of their training in the pool cause they can track their pace and level of effort so much better. I’m not going to argue the point though cause I just prefer the pool and I think that racing in a pool gives the truest indication of who is the fastest swimmer. If they did the 10K in the pool in heats in a TT fashion, the result would prob be diff from the OW race with its drafting, just as a cycling road race vs a TT. In any case, diff strokes for diff folks as they say. I’ll stick with the pool cause I like it. I never get bored in the pool, unlike the vast majority of ST posters:)
Some of them I agree with, but a few of them are just silly.
#21 Repetition is your friend. Variety is for the weak minded, and interferes with the learning process. Repetition, Repetition, Repetition.
Obviously you want to consistently work on certain aspects of your swim, but it also does help to change things up every once in a while. For instance, I had a period of time when I focused solely on doing long sets and lots of yardage. After a couple of weeks of that I had a very efficient and even stroke, but I had a hard time accelerating or producing extra power if I ever needed to. I added in a few intense sets, as well as some sprints, and it really helped me in producing more power on the longer sets. You totally want to develop a consistent base, but there’s nothing wrong with changing it up, and there’s certainly nothing weak-minded about it.
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Conditioning trumps drills. Technique matters, but the way most athletes try to improve technique doesn’t work. Get fitter, and your ability to hold good technique improves. It takes a lot of work to develop aerobic conditioning in your upper body. If you think you are already swimming a lot but are not improving, swim more and keep at it. There are no shortcuts.
I get what he is saying, but I think he is underplaying technique. So many people don’t know how to properly reach with their stroke, they don’t know how to catch the water, they don’t kick properly, and they cross their center line and unless people can learn how to do these things, they really shouldn’t be putting in lots of yardage. -
Traditional drills don’t work. The type of drills and the way that most triathletes do them don’t actually have any material effect on swimming technique.
What the hell is he talking about? Many of the classic drills do work, and many swimming coaches around the country insist on employing them. What I think he is saying is that “traditional drills don’t work because triathletes don’t do the drills properly” and if that’s that case then triathletes just need to learn how to do the drills properly. It would be like saying “intervals don’t work for cyclists because they don’t know how to do them intense enough.” It’s not that the intervals don’t work, it’s just that the people executing them aren’t doing so properly.
- Don’t count strokes. See rule #2. The objective is to get faster, not take fewer strokes.
Sort of, I personally prefer efficiency as opposed to a high stroke rate. I don’t necessarily count strokes or anything like that, but I am definitely aware of when my stroke rate is efficient and when I am capable of holding my speed over a long distance, as opposed to when I am sprinting and trying to just output every ounce of power over a small distance.
- Learn now to use your kick but don’t spend a lot of time with kick sets. Kicking is about stroke control and body position, not propulsion for triathlon. Kick fitness doesn’t matter.
Kick fitness does matter, it’s just that you’re not going to use it in a triathlon. Think of it this way. If you can swim a 2KM main set with lots of kicking and complete it successfully, then swimming that distance in a triathlon without intensive kicking is going to feel a lot less taxing. Reason being is that your legs use up a ton of oxygen, so if you condition your aerobic system to provide oxygen to both the legs and arms, and then on race day it mainly has to provide oxygen to just the arms then you are doing yourself a huge favor. Plus, if you ever need that extra speed you can always get the legs kicking if you have to.
I don’t know, these are just my personal preferences, but I think triathletes try to oversimplify the swim, or try to depart from traditional swimming rules for no reason. Believe it or not, if you are fast in a pool (whether it is short course or long course) you are going to be pretty darn fast in open water. Aside from some more open water specific skills like sighting, the training for regular swimming and open water swimming aren’t that different.
Once the 910XT supports custom swim workouts I may never get into a pool again.
Once the 910XT supports custom swim workouts I may never get into a pool again.
Even in the winter??? The OW temp here in Tennessee gets down to the high 30s/low 40s in January, which is pretty cold even with a full wetsuit.
OK, I take it back. Maybe in the winter. But the sentiment is there–I try to avoid the pool at all costs. For some reason it’s just mind-numbing to me, and I find that the push off the wall every 25-50 is an opportunity to reset some of those bad form/technique habits that only come out on an uninterrupted swim.
A pull quote from my next blog post:
“Swimming in a pool is like riding a trainer; it’s decent training, but it’s no substitute for the real thing.”
The guy who said that swam for the University of Texas before becoming a triathlete.You mean it’s more efficient, more easily trackable, safer, and a better use of training time? I agree, swimming in a pool is like riding a trainer.
Some of them I agree with, but a few of them are just silly.
#21 Repetition is your friend. Variety is for the weak minded, and interferes with the learning process. Repetition, Repetition, Repetition.
Obviously you want to consistently work on certain aspects of your swim, but it also does help to change things up every once in a while. For instance, I had a period of time when I focused solely on doing long sets and lots of yardage. After a couple of weeks of that I had a very efficient and even stroke, but I had a hard time accelerating or producing extra power if I ever needed to. I added in a few intense sets, as well as some sprints, and it really helped me in producing more power on the longer sets. You totally want to develop a consistent base, but there’s nothing wrong with changing it up, and there’s certainly nothing weak-minded about it.
-
Conditioning trumps drills. Technique matters, but the way most athletes try to improve technique doesn’t work. Get fitter, and your ability to hold good technique improves. It takes a lot of work to develop aerobic conditioning in your upper body. If you think you are already swimming a lot but are not improving, swim more and keep at it. There are no shortcuts.
I get what he is saying, but I think he is underplaying technique. So many people don’t know how to properly reach with their stroke, they don’t know how to catch the water, they don’t kick properly, and they cross their center line and unless people can learn how to do these things, they really shouldn’t be putting in lots of yardage. -
Traditional drills don’t work. The type of drills and the way that most triathletes do them don’t actually have any material effect on swimming technique.
What the hell is he talking about? Many of the classic drills do work, and many swimming coaches around the country insist on employing them. What I think he is saying is that “traditional drills don’t work because triathletes don’t do the drills properly” and if that’s that case then triathletes just need to learn how to do the drills properly. It would be like saying “intervals don’t work for cyclists because they don’t know how to do them intense enough.” It’s not that the intervals don’t work, it’s just that the people executing them aren’t doing so properly.
- Don’t count strokes. See rule #2. The objective is to get faster, not take fewer strokes.
Sort of, I personally prefer efficiency as opposed to a high stroke rate. I don’t necessarily count strokes or anything like that, but I am definitely aware of when my stroke rate is efficient and when I am capable of holding my speed over a long distance, as opposed to when I am sprinting and trying to just output every ounce of power over a small distance.
- Learn now to use your kick but don’t spend a lot of time with kick sets. Kicking is about stroke control and body position, not propulsion for triathlon. Kick fitness doesn’t matter.
Kick fitness does matter, it’s just that you’re not going to use it in a triathlon. Think of it this way. If you can swim a 2KM main set with lots of kicking and complete it successfully, then swimming that distance in a triathlon without intensive kicking is going to feel a lot less taxing. Reason being is that your legs use up a ton of oxygen, so if you condition your aerobic system to provide oxygen to both the legs and arms, and then on race day it mainly has to provide oxygen to just the arms then you are doing yourself a huge favor. Plus, if you ever need that extra speed you can always get the legs kicking if you have to.
I don’t know, these are just my personal preferences, but I think triathletes try to oversimplify the swim, or try to depart from traditional swimming rules for no reason. Believe it or not, if you are fast in a pool (whether it is short course or long course) you are going to be pretty darn fast in open water. Aside from some more open water specific skills like sighting, the training for regular swimming and open water swimming aren’t that different.
X1000, you have to be good in the pool to be good in OW. People who say they’re faster in OW than in a pool most likely haven’t done much swimming and don’t have any kind of decent turns. Also, the majority of tri swims are short anyway so you really can’t compare your pool times to your tri swim times. Instead you should look at the times of the fastest swimmers. To use the OD swim of 1500m as an example, Yang Sun went 14:31 to set the new WR yesterday. If you’re in a local race, your fastest ex-D1 swimmer can prob go around 17:00 for the same 1500 LCM in the pool, which would translate to around 17:30 or 18:00 in a tri IF the course is accurate. So, if the top swimmer goes 16:00, the the course is prob 10% short, i.e. around 1500 yds not meters, which is quite common in my experience. Shoot I did one race where the fastest “1500m” time was around 13:30 and like 20 people were under 15:00. Yeah, right we were all just swimming really fast that day:) That swim was more like 1150 meters or so.
OK, I take it back. Maybe in the winter. But the sentiment is there–I try to avoid the pool at all costs. For some reason it’s just mind-numbing to me, and I find that the push off the wall every 25-50 is an opportunity to reset some of those bad form/technique habits that only come out on an uninterrupted swim.
I understand where you’re coming from as it clearly sounds like you are a fairly new swimmer, i.e. you did not grow up in the pool every day in the summer and year-round from age 13 as I did. However, since you are relatively new, you are one who benefit from having someone watching you swim every time you get in the water. It is very hard for an inexperienced swimmer to tell whether he is correcting his “bad habits” properly or not. So, I would discourage you from swimming OW most of the time. Are there any really good swimmers at the pool where you swim??? Most swimmers are more than happy to give advice as long as you don’t interrupt the flow of their main set:) Just watching good swimmers and forming a mental image in your head to imitate is really beneficial. I improved a lot when I first started swimming Masters in my early 20s just from watching some super swimmers at my pool while I was stretching in warm-up. Just my $0.02 worth.
OK, I take it back. Maybe in the winter. But the sentiment is there–I try to avoid the pool at all costs. For some reason it’s just mind-numbing to me, and I find that the push off the wall every 25-50 is an opportunity to reset some of those bad form/technique habits that only come out on an uninterrupted swim.
I understand where you’re coming from as it clearly sounds like you are a fairly new swimmer, i.e. you did not grow up in the pool every day in the summer and year-round from age 13 as I did. However, since you are relatively new, you are one who benefit from having someone watching you swim every time you get in the water. It is very hard for an inexperienced swimmer to tell whether he is correcting his “bad habits” properly or not. So, I would discourage you from swimming OW most of the time. Are there any really good swimmers at the pool where you swim??? Most swimmers are more than happy to give advice as long as you don’t interrupt the flow of their main set:) Just watching good swimmers and forming a mental image in your head to imitate is really beneficial. I improved a lot when I first started swimming Masters in my early 20s just from watching some super swimmers at my pool while I was stretching in warm-up. Just my $0.02 worth.
Good points. In fact, just recently I’ve made some significant progress having a former collegiate swimmer watch what I was doing and make some suggestions. You’ve made some strong arguments to make me re-think my hatred of the pool. Thanks.
OK, I take it back. Maybe in the winter. But the sentiment is there–I try to avoid the pool at all costs. For some reason it’s just mind-numbing to me, and I find that the push off the wall every 25-50 is an opportunity to reset some of those bad form/technique habits that only come out on an uninterrupted swim.
I understand where you’re coming from as it clearly sounds like you are a fairly new swimmer, i.e. you did not grow up in the pool every day in the summer and year-round from age 13 as I did. However, since you are relatively new, you are one who benefit from having someone watching you swim every time you get in the water. It is very hard for an inexperienced swimmer to tell whether he is correcting his “bad habits” properly or not. So, I would discourage you from swimming OW most of the time. Are there any really good swimmers at the pool where you swim??? Most swimmers are more than happy to give advice as long as you don’t interrupt the flow of their main set:) Just watching good swimmers and forming a mental image in your head to imitate is really beneficial. I improved a lot when I first started swimming Masters in my early 20s just from watching some super swimmers at my pool while I was stretching in warm-up. Just my $0.02 worth.
Good points. In fact, just recently I’ve made some significant progress having a former collegiate swimmer watch what I was doing and make some suggestions. You’ve made some strong arguments to make me re-think my hatred of the pool. Thanks.
DrPete - You’re welcome. Swimming is such a great sport and such a great overall workout; only endurance sport other than cross-country skiing, and rowing to some extent, that uses the upper body in an aerobic fashion, which I think along with the obvious technique issues are why swimming is so hard for most people. A small minority of the population, maybe 10%, can just “get” the feel of swimming and pick it up fairly quickly, but the other 90% have to really work at it. Don’t give up on it though, as you’ve seen from working with your swimmer friend you’re making progress. Believe it or not, I know about 10 guys/girls who took up swimming in their 20s or even 30s but yet who became excellent swimmers. Most just swim Masters but there are 4 who were runners before going into tri. Two of those 4 were able to go 1:5X for 200 yds short course, i.e. 25 yd pool, which is pretty fast IMO. Sure Phelps can go 1:31 or 1:32 but 1:55 is still moving right along:)
A pull quote from my next blog post:
“Swimming in a pool is like riding a trainer; it’s decent training, but it’s no substitute for the real thing.”
The guy who said that swam for the University of Texas before becoming a triathlete.
There is only one great triathlete that I can think of who swam at UT, and I cannot imagine that he said that. If he did say it, and you are attributing it to him, so be it.
I would also disagree that swimming in a pool is like riding a trainer. A better analogy would be that a pool is like track cycling and open water is like being on the road, or better yet, singletrack, where seen or unforseen obstacles disrupt one’s rhythm. Either way, I say it’s a fairly moot point, as triathlons are not designed to reward swim fitness/technique as much as they do cycling and running fitness/technique.