The slowest swimmer at masters

Triathlon Forum
1

…is me. Week in and week out, I’m the slowest. This is a relatively small, stable group of about 7-8 regulars plus the coach. Everyone once in a while someone new will show up for a week or two, sometimes slower than me, sometimes faster, but few stick around for long. (I think the reason for that is because it’s HARD.) And though my times have improved over the past year or so, I’m always dead last. I’m in the slow lane, but anyone who’s in it with me is faster than me.

The coach is great. Everyone has different goals and he’ll tailor the workout to meet your needs. He knows a few of us are triathletes, so depending on what race is coming up, he’ll change the workout/pace to suit the distance. My point? It’s humiliating after a while. Everyone else is fairly close in ability level, so they all do similar workouts. I have my own workout up on the board and swim by myself (though I may share a lane). I’m beginning to hate always being the slow one. Of course, that’s true for races, too, but it’s not quite so obvious there. :slight_smile: Anyway, I sometimes try to find reasons why I can’t make it to masters class, realizing that not going is only compounding the problem - I won’t get faster if I skip workouts.

There are other masters programs in the area, but I’ve heard that 1) they just post workouts at the end of the lane and then you’re on your own to do them with the other people in the lane - very impersonal, no real coaching goes on, and 2) a woman that I think is fast told me she’s one of the slowest at those workouts, which is a bit discouraging.

I’m trying to keep my enthusiasm level up, but I’ve come to realize this is becoming an issue with me. Anyone else find themselves in this position? Any advice?

3

This is something that has kept me from joining a masters program (along with my lack of any competitive swimming background).

The real question you should be asking is are YOU getting faster. I am pretty sure that I will never swim as fast as all the folks who grew up swimming, HS swimmers, Div I collegiate swimmers, etc. But I do want to swim faster than I did last year. It sounds like you are getting faster, and that’s the important thing. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that unless you started swimming competitively as a kid, you will never be able to swim as fast as the people who did. At this point I’m just trying to get out of the water fast enough that I don’t lose races before T1, then you make all those swimmers hurt on the bike! :slight_smile:

I would say if you are improving, who cares where you are relative to everyone else. (Or challenge them to a run, that usually shuts up my swimming friends :slight_smile: ). I’m taking the plunge (so to speak) this fall when my current pool membership runs out.

Chris

4

What are you doing at your masters workout. Are you just going through the motions, getting through the workout, and going home? Or are you asking your coach for stroke tips? Has your distance per stroke increased? Can you get to the end of 25 yds. in 13 strokes where last year it took you 16? Can you do a set of 100’s on 1:30 where the interval last year was 1:40? Concentrate on those milestones, concentrate on better form. Do a personal time trial for 100yds, 400yds, 1000yds, write down the times and test yourself again in 6 months. Give yourself a goal for the swim instead of making it a demoralizing workout b/c you can’t keep up with others who may do nothing other than swim. . . just my 2c. good luck!

5

I’m in the slow lane and when I’m not going on a regular basis I’m DFL in that lane… But what I tell myself is that I’m doing the best possible swim workout for myself that I can be doing…

So think of it this way… It sounds like you have a good coach and the workouts are good… So is there something better you could be doing with your time to improve your swimming? If not just remember your doing the best possible thing for your swimming by being there so who cares if your the slowest. There are hundreds of other local triathletes who could be there putting in the time but aren’t like you are.

6

In my last serious effort at swim training (summer 02), I was in the second-slowest of 6 masters lanes. The lane was the “1:50” lane, meaning that we did our various repeats by leaving the wall at 1:50 per hundred yard effort. I never made it more than 1500 yards in one of those workouts before having to move down to the 2:00 lane.

This year, I’ve been swimming by myself, doing the specific workouts I’ve been advised to do. Yesterday, I did 3 sets of 10x100y leaving the wall on 1:30.

Was masters holding me back? Are the new workouts magic? I don’t know, but I know I’m getting better by not swimming masters anymore.

I think that maybe masters was hurting me because, instead of focusing on my form and consistency, etc., I was focused solely on not letting the person behind me catch me. That is probably OK for most people, but made me just crazy. I’m doing much better now off in a side lane cranking out my sets and looking at my own watch.

7

Well, if I lived near you, I could help you out by showing up…

I really, really, really, really suck at swimming. I will never get fast, though I may become competent someday.

I’m really hapy to be swimming for workouts at all, considering a couple of years ago I felt like I was going to drown whenever I got in the water. But I know what you are feeling exactly, because I also live it.

It’s very difficult on my competitive nature to show up and perform so poorly all the time. But it is really good for my character, and I’m learning that just participating (rather than always trying to “win”), has a lot of value. And I’m learning a sport that I can practice into old age.

And I’m getting to know all those very interesting and inspiring elderly folks in my lane…

Leigh

8

I swim at two pools. In one, I’m medium slow and can barely keep up with the fast lane’s breaststroke with my freestyle. The other pool, I’m almost always the fastest one there. I can tell you I get a much better workout when I’m having to really work to keep up and usually the last one to finish each set. The only advice is you just have to learn to check your ego at the door and not let it bother you. Make sure you continue to work on refining your stroke. Improvement in swimming is a long term project.

9

You should see masters practice in a different light as ex-collegiates do: For them it is all about challenge, for you it should be about getting some HONEST feedback about your swimming.

Masters is not only about swimming fast. It is about having someone who can help you improve ALL aspects of your swimming.

If you have the time to ponder this question DURING/before/after your workout, you are definately not as focussed and concentrated as you should be.

Focus on your workout and try to implement what the coach tells you. Forget about the fast lanes…

10

= Or are you asking your coach for stroke tips =

if it’s anything like the masters program offered at my neighbourhood pool (that I attended a few times) that might not have been an option: when I was there there were 4 lanes, and us folks in the ‘slow’ lane got absolutely 0 coaching. The ‘coach’ just wrote the workouts on a whiteboard and then spent all his time with the folks in the fastest lane.

Needless to say I went there a few times and then I figured that there was no point at all, not to mention that the ‘coach’ in question was definitely offputting as a person (meaning: when signing up you had to fill in a long questionnaire with your objectives and so on to be handed in to the coach at the first lesson, when I handed it mine he half chuckled at me and said ‘and what am I supposed to do with this?’, I mean come on!) and seemed not interested at all in long course/tri swimming (workouts we were given included A LOT of kick sets for example)

After that experience I am very, very, very loathe to consider masters again.

11

Please don’t take this the wrong way - I mean to help…

I swim pretty fast. Have a huge swimming background.

So I swim with a few masters guys at lunch pretty regularly. They are good swimmers, but not in my league. Every freakin day they are trying to race with me from the moment we hop in the pool. By the middle of the session they are barely able to keep up with the intervals. They are imploding and not getting any better after the 1 1/2 years we have swum together.

About 6 moths ago one of the guys was bitchin, said I must be swimming on the side so as to stay faster then them (ya right - with biking and running I got time for secret swim practices). I had had enough.

I mentioned that if he did not shoot his wad during warm up staying with me (actually these guys always “win” the warm up set) and trained smart - ie - warmed up when he needed to , worked his stroke when needed, trained hard on the hard sets, moderate on the moderate sets, and paid attention to the colck working to decend (sp?) efforts within sets - IF HE SWAM SMART - then he would be getting faster.

Now I don’t know what you are doing in your swim practice, but it does seem like you are concerned with what others are doing at your swim practice. Forget about everyone else and how fast they are. Be mindful of what you are doing in all respects. Use your coach and drop your ego.

I bet you get faster in 6 months of consistent swimming that is focused on your proper trainng. Maybe not to the FAST lane, but who cares?

12

I can now hold about 1:30 or a little less, 12-15 times, depending on how long my warm up is. Slow. I’m assuming if I keep working on it, it will inch back to 1:25, and that’s pretty much it.

Now, here’s my question. The guy I do tri sprints with, hell, he does 40-50 100s, on 1:15, and could probably do them in 1:05, beautiful form, bilateral breathing, and so on. One of the fastest swimmers down here. In a tri sprint, sure as hell, he gets right out of the water first in his AG, anywhere from 4th - 7th overall, in the swim. Has about a 3-4 minute lead on all of us, in the second wave, over 40 people, but he ends up finishing middle to upper in his age group, 4th to 6th, even though overall he’s in the top 5 in swimming time, total. He does well but not at the level of his swim.

So, what’s the freaking point? He’s doing better and better on his bike, and he’s already a good runner.

What do you really get by improving your speed 15-20 seconds, per 200-300 yards or a minute or so and change in the mile, in practical terms versus time spent during the week, as you could on a bike, or better yet, on a run?

I’m not saying 2 minutes isn’t important or a 3-4 minute improvement isn’t important, but, to get that versus the time you have to spend in the pool, is it really worth it, spending an inordinate amount of time each week, doing drills, learning new stroke efficiency, just to get a minute improvement of a minute to two or even three, in a 800 yard to one mile swim?

I would think that time reduction you could get better on the bike, or run. I think you have to reach a point with your swimming where you say: “okay, the experiment is over. I’m stopping here.” Small gains come at too high a cost, versus time you could be spending running or biking.

There’s not even a guarantee, that your new swimming improvement would even apply, if someone kicks you in the face, or you get blocked in, in open water. Nobody here says, I just improved my swim time at the pool, over the last year, with people pounding on me.

So, it’s a “pig in a poke,” or open question, whether you can even apply that rate at that new pace, in a triathlon anyway.

Also, isn’t the stroke a bit different in an open water swim?, go out and try swimming down the lanes, lifting your head up a bit, every 3-4 strokes, to see where you are going. It wears you out quickly.

13

I am one of the slowest in my Masters group, but we have a big group of collegiate swimmers. I don’t swim the slow lane, but 2nd to slowest lane, but usually lead that one. I am the only triathlete that comes regualrly, but now many of the swimmers are getting into it. Our coach actually emailed me the other day and asked how he could make practice and Masters more attractive to triathletes. Like maybe having a swimmers workout and a triathlete’s workout. I don’t know if any of the other posters’ Masters group had tired this, but I was kind of flattered they wanted to keep us (me) happy. I just told him to screw IM (not ironman in this case) workouts, I couldn’t do 3 of the 4 strokes anyway.

14

boothrand

Not sure if your post was directed at me - but I’ll bite…

First off I just answered how to get faster at swimming.

I get your point about sprint tris and why put the effort into swimming. Now I don’t do sprints, just not my cup of tea, but if I did I probably would not put more than one swim a week into the training.

Bluntly put - the wet suit is the biggest form of legalized cheating in any sport. It has marginalized the swim portion of a tri significantly. IMO - it puts good swimmers at a huge disadvantage and allows some folks who cannot even swim to be able to call them selves triathletes. I know - wa waa waaaa - but it is truth!

But you asked why train for the swim. Well here are some reasons, particularly for races oly distance and even more so for HIM & IM…

  1. good swimmers control their HR and effot and come out more refreshed going into the bike.

  2. good swimmers do not get pummled. At IMC I was ahead of the pack within the first 200 meters - I was NEVER touched by anyone over the first mile.

  3. good swimmers don’t freak out in the water and have all the anxiety that poor swimmers do.

  4. good swimmers have less crowded T1s and ride in less crowded bike courses. Guess we don’t get to jump into the draft fests that poor swimmers are always complaining about.

  5. good swimmers can train aerobically any time/all the time and do less damage to their bodies than having to get base in only through running and/or biking.

  6. good swimmers don’t have to bail out of a race because of thee foot + waves.

And most importantly - good swimmers are better lovers, get all the hot tri chicks, have their pic taken as race leaders coming out of the water, smell better and generally are way tougher than everyone else.

see ya at the pool ;} I’ll be the one in the fast lane.

15

oops, when I read the subject line I thought it was a personal message to me.

I have over the years been to at least 8 different “masters” swim classes ranging from the nameless faceless board at the end of the lanes (who in their right minds need someone else to write out these workouts??) to the “what are we goign to do with you” “coaches”.

I would usually just swim laps by myself when there wasn’t a “masters” session. That was until this summer when there was a masters during my lunch hour, which is the only time I had to swim. I would go in, ask the coach if it was ok if I just swam laps in the far end and I would do my thing. She was gone one day and a guy (let’s call him Rob, you know, because thats his name) filling in for her said, fine, let me know if I can help. After swimming my 1,500 straight through, he walked up with a couple of tennis balls and taught me something about turnover, and since then he has been my very inexpesive private coach. He was leading Tue-Thurs and I had been going M-W-F and I lost half a summer tweedling away.

Funny thing, is, I am so damn selfish I never noticed that there were eight other people swimming at the same time, I couldn’t care less how fast they are going or if I was keeping up. That would be like me caring that I can’t run as fast as, shoot I don’t even know the names of any runners, or bike as fast as Armstrong or swim as fast as that Ian Thorpe, didn’t he win 8 medals or something. See how selfish I am, its about me and getting better than I was yesterday.

Hilariously, someone asked “me” a question about swimming at the pool a couple of weeks ago, must have really been a new guy. It took me a minute before I realized that he was looking for advice from me.

16

You forgot #7.

  1. Despite all of these advantage including getting the hot tri chicks, good swimmers still get mowed down by the faster bikers and runners.
18

He had me swim holding them, you go through the water much faster with a fist than with a open hand, he was just showing me how to increase the turnover rate. You have to have a much higher turnover with a fist than an open hand. I tended to take one stroke, then the next, the arms were never moving at the same time. Now its more like two seconds hands on a watch moving at the same time. I would only do a few laps of this, it was just to get the feel of turnover.

Next we worked on punching the water with the fists instead of trying to be so smooth that I was getting nowhere.

next we worked on bilateral breathing

then 50s and 100s instead of just getting in the water and swimming for a half hour like I used to do

then kicking

then it snowed and I won’t see him until next summer

19

Hey Boothrand,

Why is it that people who cant swim assume that those of us who can dont ride well.

Some guys that I swam with used to always say “who cares about the swim, I’ll get you on the bike/run”. Well, no you wont. I can swim, I can bike, and I can run. Unless you are uber biker, you wont be catching any of the fellas that I swim with, even if you get out of the water with us. Your 23mph may be fast compared to some of the people around you, but it wont cut it from the front.

Boy, that was arrogant. Not sure what got into me.

Have a great day!

20

bvfrompc,

I would say one of two things is going on. 1: you need a new coach. or 2: you are not understanding what it is that your coach is trying to do.

Punching the water? Two second hands? I hope that these are your terms and not your coaches. Even then, they’re still goofy.

Higher turnover? I think your coach is stuck in 85.

Get a new coach.

21

Wow,

I bet you are a very good online swim coach if you can cast a judgment over the deficits the poster may or may not have by the two sentences he/she posted on this forum. :slight_smile:

I am truly impressed.

22

To all you non-swimmers out there;

Good swimmers are fast, not because they are fit, but because they can apply a lot of force the the propper stroke. That is very hard to do. Any dude can get in and swim hard. not everyone can swim well. It’s a lot like a golf swing or a baseall swing. It’s not about trying to smack the shit out of it, its about getting the proper from down so you can do it in your sleep. a half speed, perfect swing will drive a ball a ton further than an all out swing that has no form.

Masters tream often have the focus on the fitness and not the stroke. do 5 workouts a week of 2500-4000 for a year and you will be a fit mofo. that does not mean that you will swim fast. Your fitness is only as good as you stroke. Step back, control the stroke and only apply the force that you can and still hold form. There are times to just go hard, but most of the time you MUST be in control of your stroke in order to improve.

I have coached and swam masters for a long time. It always amazed me that VERY FEW people EVER get faster. they do to a point, then it all levels out. Why? because they are as fit as they can be but their stroke has never improved.

YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SWIM WELL SLOW BEFORE YOU CAN SWIM WELL FAST!

Form, form, form. Hire a GOOD coach for private lessons. What a good coach? look up your local US Swimming club team and contact them about private lessons. Many coaches earn much of their living doing private lessons, you just have to find them.

PM me if you are in the Lowell/Haverhill/Boston area (I will be Living in Andover starting Oct 10th and will be coaching) and I will be happy to help you out.

LaWoof