The secret to learning fast (distance) swimming?

Triathlon Forum
1

Reading the swim thread, there is lots of interesting, if conflicting, input. But I think a lot of it does not come from athletes that have actually been through the entire journey.

So, here is an idea, lets get some direct, intentionally anecdotal, accounts from successful Adult Onset Swimmers (AOS) who personally have done this:

  • Started out swim training no earlier than age 20 (training, not playing around in the water as a kid).
  • Started out swimming quite slow (so anything around 2:00 per 100 yds for, say, and all-out 800yd pool swim).
  • But have now progressed to swimming better than 1:15 per 100 yds for an all-out 800.

If you have done this, or have done something very similar, all as an adult without being part of a youth swimming program as a youngster, what do you think has made it possible for you to do this?

I can start:

  • Joined a masters group.
  • Got lots of direct and highly specific stroke instruction to fix my specific technique flaws.
  • Swam a lot.

And I can say this with certainty: I could not have gotten faster without fixing my technique flaws. Because I swam lots and lots of yards with crappy technique and I only got only a little faster. But when my technique was fixed with some one-on-one input, holy toledo, things really changed. Because, immediately after that, I got hugely faster with no (further) increase in yards.

Greg @ dsw

2

I have found finding a swim coach either privately or through a Masters class is equally important to having goggle while swimming.
A coach can point out bad habits and recommend proper swim strokes to help you swim more efficiently in the water.

3

I never swam a kid, but I was a diver. An injury in college forced me to stop diving.
My coach knew I would be walking on without knowing how to do a flipturn.
I did Total Immersion the summer before junior year (20), and thenI walked on (d3) as a junior.

I swam a lot. I was a college swimmer, averaging 30k a week at the beginning of the season and as much as 70k a week during training trip. That was when I was fastest.

A few years ago, for my “off-season” i decided to be a swimmer again. I started swimming ~30k yards per week again, and saw most of my times get very close to my old college times once again.

For me, to go really fast, I need a lot of volume.

4

Greg, I know everyone’s stroke is different but I’d find it interesting if you could detail some of the flaws/remedies that allowed you to improve.

Joel

5
  • No swim experience at all prior to age ~25. (2008).
  • Could barely swim 25 yards at a time, had to get out early from the slowest lane of my first masters classes because I couldn’t do the drills
  • Current 100 yard (from a push) PR is ~:55. 500 (push) is ~5:40, 2000 yard is ~24:00.

What did this? A good sense of body awareness I suppose. Being somewhat predisposed to being a good swimmer, somehow. I think the other big thing was a willingness to put in a lot of work (for a triathlete) in the pool for ~3 years. Most people would probably solve a lot of their technique issues by putting in a lot of (the right) work and their body would sort of “figure it out” to a degree.

6

Reading the swim thread, there is lots of interesting, if conflicting, input. But I think a lot of it does not come from athletes that have actually been through the entire journey.

So, here is an idea, lets get some direct, intentionally anecdotal, accounts from successful Adult Onset Swimmers (AOS) who personally have done this:

  • Started out swim training no earlier than age 20 (training, not playing around in the water as a kid).
  • Started out swimming quite slow (so anything around 2:00 per 100 yds for, say, and all-out 800yd pool swim).
  • But have now progressed to swimming better than 1:15 per 100 yds for an all-out 800.

If you have done this, or have done something very similar, all as an adult without being part of a youth swimming program as a youngster, what do you think has made it possible for you to do this?

I started swim training at age 26, but I was never that slowly that I can recall. I think I did a 2:14 scy the second year, and 1:53 the sixth year. Within six years I did a 5:17 500scy.

Keys:
Very good proprioception. Coach says “you are doing this, you want to do that, change by doing this”. Done. (that’s why I never swam that slowly)Small masters group with a very good on-deck coach who gave personalized feedback.Read every article, watched every video tape (the real tape back in the 80s) I could find on technique.Joined a group of beer-drinking ex-college swimmers and swam sets I had no business trying. Swam as hard as I could for as long as I could, sat out a 50, then got back in. Got yelled at a lot.Treated every stroke as practice. Got to the point where if I do something wrong, I know it and fix it the next stroke.

7

Greg, I know everyone’s stroke is different but I’d find it interesting if you could detail some of the flaws/remedies that allowed you to improve.

Dang, where do I begin? Well, I changed:

  • arm recovery
  • arm entry
  • arm extension
  • early vertical forearm
  • pull sweep under my body
  • final extension of pull
  • shoulder roll
  • shoulder extension
  • head position
  • stroke timing
  • leg position
8

I started swim training at age 26, but I was never that slowly that I can recall. I think I did a 2:14 scy the second year, and 1:53 the sixth year. Within six years I did a 5:17 500scy.

Keys:
Very good proprioception. Coach says “you are doing this, you want to do that, change by doing this”. Done. (that’s why I never swam that slowly)Small masters group with a very good on-deck coach who gave personalized feedback.Read every article, watched every video tape (the real tape back in the 80s) I could find on technique.Joined a group of beer-drinking ex-college swimmers and swam sets I had no business trying. Swam as hard as I could for as long as I could, sat out a 50, then got back in. Got yelled at a lot.Treated every stroke as practice. Got to the point where if I do something wrong, I know it and fix it the next stroke.
Some great tips. The ones that I bolded show that you were also a highly motivated swimmer and student.

And that is also a critical ingredient to AOS success.

9

as a athlete, i started at around 2min by 100 METERS …i was around 18-19 years old and never been part of a program.

about 10 years later of swimming 5-9 times a week and doing a lot of different swim focus with lots of different world class coach, i was down to 1:10-15 /100 meters so in the 1:05 range in yards. i was able to make front pack at any world class races in the pro field.

TIME…nothing will take the place of time in the water or like a good friend of mine says, ‘‘a overnight success takes 10 years’’…

As a coach, i have work with countless adult onset swimmers and professional triathletes. I been able to change some of them to very good as long as the commitment was there. And commitment mean you will need to embrace the journey and do some brutal swim focus to make it happen.

My experience show me very few are truly ready/able to get the work done to reach there goals.

10

Reading the swim thread, there is lots of interesting, if conflicting, input. But I think a lot of it does not come from athletes that have actually been through the entire journey.

So, here is an idea, lets get some direct, intentionally anecdotal, accounts from successful Adult Onset Swimmers (AOS) who personally have done this:

  • Started out swim training no earlier than age 20 (training, not playing around in the water as a kid).
  • Started out swimming quite slow (so anything around 2:00 per 100 yds for, say, and all-out 800yd pool swim).
  • But have now progressed to swimming better than 1:15 per 100 yds for an all-out 800.

If you have done this, or have done something very similar, all as an adult without being part of a youth swimming program as a youngster, what do you think has made it possible for you to do this?

I started swim training at age 26, but I was never that slowly that I can recall. I think I did a 2:14 scy the second year, and 1:53 the sixth year. Within six years I did a 5:17 500scy.

Keys:
Very good proprioception. Coach says “you are doing this, you want to do that, change by doing this”. Done. (that’s why I never swam that slowly)Small masters group with a very good on-deck coach who gave personalized feedback.Read every article, watched every video tape (the real tape back in the 80s) I could find on technique.Joined a group of beer-drinking ex-college swimmers and swam sets I had no business trying. Swam as hard as I could for as long as I could, sat out a 50, then got back in. Got yelled at a lot.Treated every stroke as practice. Got to the point where if I do something wrong, I know it and fix it the next stroke.

That sounds remarkably like what successful swimmers who started out as kids did.

I dunno, I don’t really see being an AOS as this major crutch or disadvantage. The basics are the same. Get good coaching, listen to your coach, and swim lots, pushing your limits.

The main difference, IMO between kids and adults is that kids have a built-in reinforcement mechanism in that they are growing and getting bigger and stronger each year. Adults, generally speaking, aren’t, so it can be more discouraging when improvement doesn’t come as rapidly as you might want. Kids also have more time to spend swimming. If an adult could put in the volume and intensity that your typical club team puts in, then they would also see massive improvements. However, adults generally don’t have time for that, so we have to be content with more modest improvements.

In my case, my first ever 100m free was a 1:11.7 when I was 14, and I was under 1:00 by the time I was 16. at 18 I was around :55 then peaked at ages 19-21 (53 mid). But prior to starting competitive swimming as a 14 year old, I had swum a LOT, just farting around in the ocean every summer, bodysurfing, snorkelling, etc…

11

I started swimming in 2010 (18 y.o.) after I joined the UMich triathlon team and I could barely make it to the other side of the pool. Within 2 years I was down to 22’s for 1500m and now I’m hoping for an 18:xx 1650yd in a couple weeks.

Almost all of my technique improvements came from watching swim videos & imitating what I saw. I didn’t receive coaching or significant advice on my stroke until the past couple years. My improvements in speed almost always came in tandem with an increase in swim volume and intensity. It seems like the more I force myself to hold a fast pace, the better my stroke becomes naturally. Tips from my master’s coach have definitely been valuable, but getting a feel for the water and learning to catch and pull water well came mostly from repetition and hard work (& good examples). I have good proprioception and a solid VO2 max so that has definitely played a big role here.

12

Holy Freaking Jealous.

13

Reading the swim thread, there is lots of interesting, if conflicting, input. But I think a lot of it does not come from athletes that have actually been through the entire journey.

So, here is an idea, lets get some direct, intentionally anecdotal, accounts from successful Adult Onset Swimmers (AOS) who personally have done this:

  • Started out swim training no earlier than age 20 (training, not playing around in the water as a kid).
  • Started out swimming quite slow (so anything around 2:00 per 100 yds for, say, and all-out 800yd pool swim).
  • But have now progressed to swimming better than 1:15 per 100 yds for an all-out 800.

If you have done this, or have done something very similar, all as an adult without being part of a youth swimming program as a youngster, what do you think has made it possible for you to do this?

I started swim training at age 26, but I was never that slowly that I can recall. I think I did a 2:14 scy the second year, and 1:53 the sixth year. Within six years I did a 5:17 500scy.

Keys:
Very good proprioception. Coach says “you are doing this, you want to do that, change by doing this”. Done. (that’s why I never swam that slowly)Small masters group with a very good on-deck coach who gave personalized feedback.Read every article, watched every video tape (the real tape back in the 80s) I could find on technique.**Joined a group of beer-drinking ex-college swimmers and swam sets I had no business trying. Swam as hard as I could for as long as I could, sat out a 50, then got back in. Got yelled at a lot.**Treated every stroke as practice. Got to the point where if I do something wrong, I know it and fix it the next stroke.

In contrast to Greg, I think #4 is the most important piece: you jumped in and tried to keep up with some really fast swimmers and it upped your game. I did similar thing in my 20s also except i had swum in HS and 1 yr at D3 college, but never with ex-D1 swimmers like i found, just by chance, to be swimming at the downtown YMCA just a 5-min walk from my first real job at age 23. I improved my times a good bit just by trying to keep up with a 20-sec 50 free-er, a 16-min 1650 guy, and a few others. Great experience:)

14

Reading the swim thread, there is lots of interesting, if conflicting, input. But I think a lot of it does not come from athletes that have actually been through the entire journey.

So, here is an idea, lets get some direct, intentionally anecdotal, accounts from successful Adult Onset Swimmers (AOS) who personally have done this:

  • Started out swim training no earlier than age 20 (training, not playing around in the water as a kid).
  • Started out swimming quite slow (so anything around 2:00 per 100 yds for, say, and all-out 800yd pool swim).
  • But have now progressed to swimming better than 1:15 per 100 yds for an all-out 800.

If you have done this, or have done something very similar, all as an adult without being part of a youth swimming program as a youngster, what do you think has made it possible for you to do this?

I started swim training at age 26, but I was never that slowly that I can recall. I think I did a 2:14 scy the second year, and 1:53 the sixth year. Within six years I did a 5:17 500scy.

Keys:
Very good proprioception. Coach says “you are doing this, you want to do that, change by doing this”. Done. (that’s why I never swam that slowly)Small masters group with a very good on-deck coach who gave personalized feedback.Read every article, watched every video tape (the real tape back in the 80s) I could find on technique.Joined a group of beer-drinking ex-college swimmers and swam sets I had no business trying. Swam as hard as I could for as long as I could, sat out a 50, then got back in. Got yelled at a lot.Treated every stroke as practice. Got to the point where if I do something wrong, I know it and fix it the next stroke.

That sounds remarkably like what successful swimmers who started out as kids did.

**I dunno, I don’t really see being an AOS as this major crutch or disadvantage. The basics are the same. Get good coaching, listen to your coach, and swim lots, pushing your limits. **

The main difference, IMO between kids and adults is that kids have a built-in reinforcement mechanism in that they are growing and getting bigger and stronger each year. Adults, generally speaking, aren’t, so it can be more discouraging when improvement doesn’t come as rapidly as you might want. Kids also have more time to spend swimming. If an adult could put in the volume and intensity that your typical club team puts in, then they would also see massive improvements. However, adults generally don’t have time for that, so we have to be content with more modest improvements.

In my case, my first ever 100m free was a 1:11.7 when I was 14, and I was under 1:00 by the time I was 16. at 18 I was around :55 then peaked at ages 19-21 (53 mid). But prior to starting competitive swimming as a 14 year old, I had swum a LOT, just farting around in the ocean every summer, bodysurfing, snorkelling, etc…

Thais is what i’ve always thought, and i think the guys/girls who have a hard time with swimming as adults prob would have had just as hard a time as kids. As for myself, one of my early instructors, when i was 4 yrs old or thereabouts, said he didn’t think i’d ever learn to swim, but eventually it just clicked. I think possibly the biggest thing was that i just loved being in the water, espec in the South Carolina summers when the heat and humidity are pretty intense. And even now, i still like being in the water more than being on dry land:)

15

“And I can say this with certainty: I could not have gotten faster without fixing my technique flaws. Because I swam lots and lots of yards with crappy technique and I only got only a little faster. But when my technique was fixed with some one-on-one input, holy toledo, things really changed. Because, immediately after that, I got hugely faster with no increase in yards.”

I wish every triathlete on this board would listen & follow this advice.

16

Greg, I know everyone’s stroke is different but I’d find it interesting if you could detail some of the flaws/remedies that allowed you to improve.

Dang, where do I begin? Well, I changed:

  • arm recovery
  • arm entry
  • arm extension
  • early vertical forearm
  • pull sweep under my body
  • final extension of pull
  • shoulder roll
  • shoulder extension
  • head position
  • stroke timing
  • leg position

Let me reverse that, or sort in priority sequence:

  • Body and leg position

  • some basic fitness testing too

  • 6B kick work leading into

  • stroke timing drills (see my video)

  • head position - yeah for sure, it’s a biggie because we are all wired to want not to drown.

  • shoulder mobility and extension – yup gotta have this. Again can be tested for.

  • Video record & split screening with a stroke you might be suited for (e.g shorter or tall person). Above and below water analysis. Great way to track progress too, like an archive.

  • final thing to work on, is the arm baloney. Lot easier on the arms in general, if you work from the feet up.

Most if not all people want to start from the hands back. I don’t know of any swim programs that actually do that tho. Our TSUN club is kick-fest.

If you are talking 1min on 100M you are going to need very good flip turns and dolphins. I can hang with our club swimmers through the lane but lose a good meter or two in and out of the wall. In fact I was working 1/2 hour on turns today. Nice to have, but OWS obviously not required.

At the 50M (today) there are scores of swimmers with the funkiest, like craziest strokes you’ve ever seen. You’d think a little time invested in a video session here or there they could be on their way to fixing some of basics up at least.

17

when I started “swimming” I was 25 min for 1000 meter and decided iam going to get sub 15 for 1000meter. I would swim 5 times a week a short warm up and then a 1000m tt ( sometimes I would stop a tt after 600 or s meter but usually i would finish. it took me 2.5 year to break 15min. pretty much swimmng all the time solo and never having seen a coach and neither looking around much. I would halrdly swim more than 2 k sessions I had no idea what i was doing but i knew what i wanted to do .
only after i had broken 15 min I joined the first swim session.
I guess the biggest show stopper to get better in swimming- while I guess iam in the top 2 % of amateur tri swimmer Iam still at a bad level, was when i realiced that I gain nothing by swimming faster .the 2nd show stopper was when i was given a total immersion book after i broke 15 min for 1000m ( fortunatley i disregared that very quickkly -despite getting one or two things out of it- when i got slower doing the stuff and i knew intristically swimming has to hurt) but my first swim drill I did when i was 14.30 for 1000 meter. At the same time form a coaching perspective I dont think doing drills without somebody correcting you does very much.
My technique ( the little that i had) in my 1000 m tts would cosntantly break down but overall there was a trend that it would break down later and later and i kept puhing the boundary.

From a coaching point I would agree most AOS dont really want it. And of course not everybody that wants it can do it or has the time to do it .At the same time i have seen many shockingly bad swimmers that are natural sinkers with 0 cordination to get sub 30 for the half with realy hard work.
I get really mad when i see people doing just drills but never pushing themselves, and when i see top runners and cyclists fluffing around in the pool wondering why they cant break 30 min for a half.

Technique is important and I certainly limited my swim ability but not doing anything in the first 2.5 years , but most people do technique work that might make them look good when they do the drills but often it dosnt make them swim faster becasue when they swim they they dont think about what they need to do .
Swimming just bloody hurts but also the pain goes away very quickly. at the same time even as a decent swimmer you can never stop to think and have to be present during the session ( not all the time but always need to check what you are doing )
people that plateou need to do shorter and faster stuff not just going up and down the pool.

even at elite tri level level there is many swim coaches that call themselveves strenght and conditioning coaches. and i have seem quite a few elite atheltes that went from renowed strenght and conditonong coaches to renowned coches theat really focuse on details and went slower .( and of course i have seen it visa versa ) So we cant say there is only one way .
personally I feel the worst thing for tri swimming was Total Immersion getting so big , while for some people it does work incredibly well it corrupted a genration of tri swimmers and still does. the 2nd worst thing for tri is that many compnaies trying to brand their coaching comming up with rigid systems. when good coaching is to see what certain swimmer really need. ( snappingt would come to mind despite doing some really good work )
.

Reading the swim thread, there is lots of interesting, if conflicting, input. But I think a lot of it does not come from athletes that have actually been through the entire journey.

So, here is an idea, lets get some direct, intentionally anecdotal, accounts from successful Adult Onset Swimmers (AOS) who personally have done this:

  • Started out swim training no earlier than age 20 (training, not playing around in the water as a kid).
  • Started out swimming quite slow (so anything around 2:00 per 100 yds for, say, and all-out 800yd pool swim).
  • But have now progressed to swimming better than 1:15 per 100 yds for an all-out 800.

If you have done this, or have done something very similar, all as an adult without being part of a youth swimming program as a youngster, what do you think has made it possible for you to do this?

I can start:

  • Joined a masters group.
  • Got lots of direct and highly specific stroke instruction to fix my specific technique flaws.
  • Swam a lot.

And I can say this with certainty: I could not have gotten faster without fixing my technique flaws. Because I swam lots and lots of yards with crappy technique and I only got only a little faster. But when my technique was fixed with some one-on-one input, holy toledo, things really changed. Because, immediately after that, I got hugely faster with no increase in yards.

Greg @ dsw

18

The outside party is important IME. Unless you somehow have pretty perfect form and your fitness simply improves, getting some outside coaching/intervention is a big part of it. I’ve gone from a 2:00+/100 to around a 1:20/100 as an AOS in my late 30’s.

It started with a Master’s swim class, where I learned some technique and the idea of swimming sets.

It progressed to a different Master’s program where we swam mostly sets, less focus on drills.

I swam consistently for 2 years and I’m still growing honestly.

Currently have a swim coach as of last month that opened a can of swim technique flaws I have.

Time and technique with expertise.

19

Let me reverse that, or sort in priority sequence: …
No worries, I was not listing the changes I made in any order of priority.

final thing to work on, is the arm baloney. Lot easier on the arms in general, if you work from the feet up.
Having taught and helped many AOS swimmers, I would disagree with this.

The order of priority should be with the worst flaws first. Start with the flaws that have the biggest impact on drag first. For some AOS swimmers, that is the head or arms or upper body. But for others, it is the legs or hips or lower body. And I would never discount what a swimmer’s arms are doing. Some good research has indicated that fast swimmers are differentiated from slower swimmers by several critical elements. One is that they have excellent distance per stroke (not a higher stroke rate). Another element is that they typically apply a lot more effective force in the first part of their underwater pull (EVF, etc.). Also, in my personal experience, many many AOS swimmers that I have taught came to me doing odd things with their arm entries that added a huge amount of drag every stroke they took. So, when I teach, we fix that pronto.

20

I started around age 26. Easily >2:00/100y if I could even finish 100. Currently I can swim 100m from a push in 1:08, just did a 400m somewhat choppy ows as part of a sprint tri without a wetsuit in 5:47 with two 90degree turns.

Technique was big for me but it wasn’t as simple as just finding a coach. I’ve bounced around. I’ve had to find technique that works for me which is still an ongoing process. I started off with TI and that coupled with 8k/week of swimming got me to where I could hold a 2:00/100m pace for 1500m but there was a clear plateau. I basically had one speed: slow. In early 2014 I worked with a local coach who made some minor tweaks and that sped me up to maybe 1:50/100m. In late 2014 I attended a Race Club swim camp and had a total overhaul of my stroke. Gary Hall Sr and co had me go from a slow stroke rate hip driven technique to a high stroke rate shoulder driven technique. The change was pretty dramatic as within a month I posted a massive PR in a wetsuit legal (calm and true) 1500m leg of an Olympic tri: 24:57. And I wasn’t on anyone’s feet. By the middle of last summer I was a 21:00-22:00/1500m wetsuit swimmer.

The problem was that technique, for me, created a huge delta between wetsuit and non-wetsuit swim times. My legs still really wanted to sink and my kick was a literal drag but that was hidden by muscling through a bunch of 50s.

Recent changes with a local coach have been to do a lot of kicking, work on ankle flexibility, work on breathing from my diaphragm (instead of just chest), and slowed my stroke rate down into the low 60s from the mid 80s while lengthening it a bit. It’s not really quantifiable but I finally feel like I’m not going to die when I swim and I feel like my lungs finally outlast my arms/lats.

I’ve also started swimming A LOT for me. When I’m on the road I try really hard to not dip below 10k/week and when I’m home I’m consistently doing 20k/week.