The saddle height methods?

Heel on pedal hips level, leg locked, puts my saddle at 79cm this puts my saddle too low

the inseam take away 10cm gives me 79.5cm this also puts my saddle to low

My heel is dropped/level in these positions

the 109% gives 80.5cm these postion above on my road, with 170 cranks If i try put my heel on the pedal i can’t I make it up with dropping the hip

My inseam is 89.5cm

I once had a retul fit on TT bike and they set my saddle at 83cm with 175 cranks on an adamo. toes super pointed at 6oclock but drop heel at 3oclock

Do these measurements seem a little odd?

Look up Greg LeMond saddle height formula or John Cobb. They’re usually really close to being right-on in my experience. Both require you to measure your inseam standing against a wall. The Cobb formula is on the higher side, but somewhere in between is good.

Look up Greg LeMond saddle height formula or John Cobb. They’re usually really close to being right-on in my experience. Both require you to measure your inseam standing against a wall. The Cobb formula is on the higher side, but somewhere in between is good.

Greg lemond puts me at 79cm same as the heel on pedal method
John cobb also puts me at 79.5cm on the lower side still

that is the -10cm measurement

Atm i’m at 81.5cm saddle height

Your foot size and pedal system has a slight bearing on things, but I would lean towards the Greg Lemond measurement. I got this like 20 years ago, and “felt” it was too low. The reason it “felt” low was because my legs would burn more…7 years ago when I got a powermeter I found out why. My legs were burning more because they were actually working harder and generating more power in the lower position…the higher positions (than Lemond) that I was using “felt” better because I was just riding at lower power. Are you using a powermeter or as you going on ‘feel’.

Look up Greg LeMond saddle height formula or John Cobb. They’re usually really close to being right-on in my experience. Both require you to measure your inseam standing against a wall. The Cobb formula is on the higher side, but somewhere in between is good.

Greg lemond puts me at 79cm same as the heel on pedal method
John cobb also puts me at 79.5cm on the lower side still

that is the -10cm measurement

Atm i’m at 81.5cm saddle height

Then I would lower it down to 79.25 (measured from the center of the crankset/BB to the top of the saddle). And then make tiny adjustments from there. Having a saddle 2cm to high isn’t the end of the world, but you may actually go faster if you lower it a bit. Oh, and just for posterity, YOUR SEAT’S TOO HIGH.

To properly account for this, it seems like a formula would have to deal with distances from the saddle to the center of the pedals. Otherwise, different crank lengths, different bottom bracket heights, and even different distances of saddle-behind-pedals would have an effect. Just multiplying inseam by something seems awfully rough.

Plus there’s the variability of where you position your cleats on your shoes. I like mine as far back as they can do. I have to think my ideal saddle height would differ somewhat if I were to use a significantly different positioning.

Or maybe I’m totally wrong but I have been fit 2 or 3 times on road bikes and I never, ever felt comfortable. I eventually found the right positioning but it took me years. By “right” I mean it feels best and my power seems to be quite good. The fact is, if my ideal positioning is what the fitters told me, I simply wouldn’t ride. It’s less enjoyable

My method was basically:

Ride a whole lotSee how I feelMake small adjustments based on my perceptionsRide several more times, see if things generally feel better or worseAdjust againRepeat, repeat repeat until perfect.

Now I know my numbers so I can reproduce

My one and only tri-bike fit was perfect from the first moment. Have never wanted to adjust…

Look up Greg LeMond saddle height formula or John Cobb. They’re usually really close to being right-on in my experience. Both require you to measure your inseam standing against a wall. The Cobb formula is on the higher side, but somewhere in between is good.

Greg lemond puts me at 79cm same as the heel on pedal method
John cobb also puts me at 79.5cm on the lower side still

that is the -10cm measurement

Atm i’m at 81.5cm saddle height

How do you know that 79cm is too low? How did you arrive at 81.5cm as the correct height?

I don’t have any idea which is right for you, just curious how you know and why the formulas are relevant.

Sam,

Haven’t you been experiencing a good deal of trouble getting comfortable on your saddle? In my personal experience this has been due to seat too high. Several years ago when I really attacked a problem I was having trouble getting comfortable in aero position and finally in desperation lower my seat , lowered it again and finally again/ In the end I lowered the saddle nearly 3cm. but found happiness with the final position. For years I’d been pedaling somewhat toe down blaming it on my size 50 feet. I now think it was to compensate for an overly high saddle.

You mentioned being heel down at 3 o’clock . I really don’t think that indicates anything regarding seat height but instead technique. I vote lower the saddle. IIRC Dev Paul went through a similar revelation a few years ago.

Hugh

Sam,

Haven’t you been experiencing a good deal of trouble getting comfortable on your saddle? In my personal experience this has been due to seat too high. Several years ago when I really attacked a problem I was having trouble getting comfortable in aero position and finally in desperation lower my seat , lowered it again and finally again/ In the end I lowered the saddle nearly 3cm. but found happiness with the final position. For years I’d been pedaling somewhat toe down blaming it on my size 50 feet. I now think it was to compensate for an overly high saddle.

You mentioned being heel down at 3 o’clock . I really don’t think that indicates anything regarding seat height but instead technique. I vote lower the saddle. IIRC Dev Paul went through a similar revelation a few years ago.

Hugh

Yeah, I ended up going from ~70 cm saddle height down to ~68. Literally have not had a saddle sore since 2008. Power has not dropped in that time frame even while getting a fair amount older. For the local guys who I have set up the “Lemond” measurement as a starting point seems to work pretty good…at first they remark they feel like they are low and squatting and then they see their power numbers and say, “is that the cost of generating more power” ? Usually a week later, they like “less saddle discomfort” coupled with “more power”…the alternate option is “lots of saddle discomfort” coupled with “lower power”…the latter seems to be a lose lose scenario.

Step 1: post picture on slowtwitch
Step 2: be told your saddle is too high
.

RetŸl fit (or and 3d Motion capture) will answer.
saddle height also depends on pedaling technique
excessive toe down or more level ankle angle

REtul fit 83cm saddle height

http://www.dailymotion.com/...0150113-111206_sport

information angles of retul fit

https://www.scribd.com/...kiia-F1-ZERO-Sam-pdf

I could be being a retard in saying my inseam is 89.5 might actually be 91cm… I do feel more powerful at 81cm… 79-79.5 causes me knee pains

Sam,

Haven’t you been experiencing a good deal of trouble getting comfortable on your saddle? In my personal experience this has been due to seat too high. Several years ago when I really attacked a problem I was having trouble getting comfortable in aero position and finally in desperation lower my seat , lowered it again and finally again/ In the end I lowered the saddle nearly 3cm. but found happiness with the final position. For years I’d been pedaling somewhat toe down blaming it on my size 50 feet. I now think it was to compensate for an overly high saddle.

You mentioned being heel down at 3 o’clock . I really don’t think that indicates anything regarding seat height but instead technique. I vote lower the saddle. IIRC Dev Paul went through a similar revelation a few years ago.

Hugh

I have been finding strange things with my tweaking…

Im having 2nd thoughts on my inseam being 91cm now… I feel more power at 81.-81.5cm saddle heights… then 79- 80.5 I also find i get more glute recruitment at 81cm-82cm saddle heights and it does feel my cadence slows down I can breakaway in local crits, but when I have lowered my saddle around the 80-80.5 mark, I feel i can spin the cadence better because of less glute recruitment and I feel my quads are working more but i cannot breakaway then. I can keep attacking with the 80 saddle height mark due to higher cadence, but struggle to do that with 81cm saddle height + glute recruitment I feel more fresh in the legs and oxygen intake with it at 81-815 also less weight on hands. it feels like it sapping my glucose more perhaps because cadence is slower. so I dont really know what to do ,

it also led me to making another topic about seatsetback pelvic rotation and glute recruitment that I think may slow down cadence perhaps its all in my head

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...rch_string=;#5656089

I’d your knee forward of food distance is too much.

I’d your knee forward of food distance is too much.

Say again i don’t understand what you mean
.

foot-
as in forward riding position

may be ok for flat land TTs
.

foot-
as in forward riding position

may be ok for flat land TTs

Yeh, most of the TT’s down here are all flat in SE of england
.