Maybe we should just think of Kona in the same way that we look at golf tournaments. There are regular tour events, and, there are a couple of majors each year.
Kona can be considered the Masters of Triathlon. It’s a great event on a beautiful and storied course. And, just like the people that run the Masters, Kona’s stewards have their own set of rules.
Edit to add that I now read Spot’s post. Sorry I missed it.
As a relative newb to this sport (three years of sprints finally moving to HIM), I think it’s awesome that IM has an event like Kona. It’s almost like the Pro Bowl or the Rose Bowl. It’s a destination every triathlete strives for. My family had a summer house in Hawaii so every summer we’d fly out there. One time my dad took me to see the race (back in 1980’s) and it was just an amazing site. We’ve also gone to a Pro Bowl out there and again, just something amazing too see. Regardless of the WTC issues (whatever they may be), I think it would be a big mistake to bounce the championship to other cities. Even the NFL did that with the Pro Bowl and moved it back to Aloha Stadium. But this is just my opinion on it. I’m not into the politics of the WTC. I just want to race/survive, preferable in that order.
Considering you answered in the affirmative when MOST of the world, and I imagine most of the readers of this board, would answer in the negative (i.e. of course Kona isn’t the only special place), then it looks like it wasn’t such a stupid question after all. I’m also surprised when such angry responses come back to measured questions - I didn’t think my initial message was antagonistic or stupid on many levels. (That seems like an epic sort of stupidity when I’m only capable of benign and trivial forms of stupidity).
Believe it or not, the same battles would emerge on different courses. The athletes are too good and the event to challenging for that not to happen. Wouldn’t it be great if our sport had more holy places than just the energy lab and queen k? How much poorer would cycling be if we only had the Alpe D’Huez … and not Tourmalet, the Zoncolan, the stadium finish of Paris Roubaix, the Muur, the Pogio … or, off the roads, the sadly run down boards of the Vigorelli? I guess I’m motivated by a passion for more rather than a fear of loss. The “what if” scenarios that would be presented by a different course are thrilling to me as a fan. I believe in the sport and I feel that a powerful way to make it grow is to take its greatest incarnation to more people, to keep it alive / evolving / new. Kona, the race and the history, won’t go away without the world championships. Iron War is a great story … but it’s one story. I believe you can both preserve and celebrate the history while writing a new future. Perhaps that’s naive (on many levels).
I never claimed the world revolved around this … but I do think Sport is more than “just a sport.” If you don’t (taking what you wrote literally - which is always dangerous) I can see that underlying the fickleness of your interest. But I can’t imagine linking my passion to something as non-substantive as location. Sport’s ability to inspire, to teach deep lessons, to open pathways by which you can alter and transcend yourself / your limits … all there is about sport that is more than sport would remain.
"do you think that Kona is the only “special place”? "
That question is stupid on many levels but I will go along with it for arguments sake. Yes I do because Kona means triathlon to me . I started really following this sport in the mid 80s and there was the Bud Light Series, Nice and Kona. That is what was fed into my young mind and it has stuck. The Ironman is Hawaii. The best meet there in October and fight it out in the lava fields. Energy Lab is that mysterious place where things can sometimes go wrong. The Queen K is where we see our favorites tuck in and go go go.
This is just a sport. It is really not life or death. The world does not revolve around it. It is what we imagine it to be and to me and a lot of people the big island is home base for triathlon. So you could flip flop the championships all around the world and honestly I would stop caring who was the world champion. I would just wait for who wins the big one.
As a relative newcomer (3 years) to the sport (and so probably in the majority) and not having any exposure to triathlon, esp. not IM, growing up in the UK (it’s popular now but not 15 years a go), I have a differing opinion. The only reason I would want to do Kona is because it is the WCs and not because it is some supposedly heavenly place on earth for triathletes, plus the heat has no appeal. I have watched the whole race on the web the last 3 years purely because it is the WC and although I understand a bit more about the appeal to some it still hasn’t ‘grabbed’ me as a destination (i.e. the run and bike course seem very boring and nothing much to look at or many fans (maybe just not noticeable on the computer?)).
However, the races I have seen that have the biggest appeal to me are Roth (crazy crowds/fans…really amazing, much more impressive than the finishing chute/transition area in Hawaii which seems to be the only place where there are largish crowds) and Copenhagen (also atmosphere/scenery). Then you have the crazy non-standard races such as the Inferno triathlon in Switzerland (amazing scenery, brutal and appeals to a massive Bond fan!) and Alp D’Huez tri (cos this is an historic climb since I follow cycling and ski…so similar to Kona I guess for some). I guess it is the appeal and transfer of the history to the newbies such as me that will determine how well Kona survives other than it just being the ‘WC’. Roth is a massive competitor in my eyes though cos it’s fast (due in part to excellent roads) but not pancake flat (bike) and the crowds and town finish seem amazing. Who doesn’t want to do an ultrafast ironman on an interesting course with big city marathon support? I wouldn’t be surprised if some dude (like in Abu Dhabi) just whacks down a load of dosh and calls their new race the WCs…if the purse is big enough all the pros will show-up, esp for a race like Roth. Would this be enough to also draw the top AGers?..well looking at the direction the sport is going i.e. the top dogs are mostly European then I am sure they would be happy (a lot probably don’t even bother coming for Kona as it is (cost, holiday/vacation, distance, IM restricted quali, etc)…we are talking about amateur). I dunno, maybe it’s just me. I have to say though, I live in the US now and only took up tri over here (left UK before it was big), so if anything I should have more of a bias towards Kona due to the media and stuff.
That still doesn’t address how much of that is the world championship halo. If you struggle to get to the world championship, and everyone around you has struggled to get there, and you take a week off of work and pay a fortune to travel there, and all the best pros are there, and the press is there, and the hype is built up … well, then, that would be kind of special, even in Madison, WI.
Uh yeah, I don’t think so.
Wouldn’t it be great if our sport had more holy places than just the energy lab and queen k? How much poorer would cycling be if we only had the Alpe D’Huez … and not Tourmalet, the Zoncolan, the stadium finish of Paris Roubaix, the Muur, the Pogio … or, off the roads, the sadly run down boards of the Vigorelli?<<
Get back to us when triathlon is 100 years old.
“Considering you answered in the affirmative when MOST of the world”
I answered in the affirmative because your question was loaded and idiotic. I knew were you where going so I stuck with Kona in my response. "do you think that Kona is the only “special place”? " That question is just dumb times 10. By no means is it the only special place. You got Nice, Alcatraz, Roth and many other fantastic places that have their very own charm and character and I have never said that other races aren’t special. In my little Tibbs mind you need to include the old Texas Hill Country crouse and The Dallas course for Ironkids.
"Believe it or not, the same battles would emerge on different courses. "
No really? You mean people race other races. Well I’ll be!
“but I do think Sport is more than “just a sport.””
Oh but it is. Maybe you haven’t had that moment in your life yet but someday you will see that while Sport is important and wonderful it’s just a game.
“If you don’t (taking what you wrote literally - which is always dangerous) I can see that underlying the fickleness of your interest.”
Swing by my pad and look at my computer history, bookshelves and talk to anyone who knows me. I ain’t fickle about endurance sports.
" But I can’t imagine linking my passion to something as non-substantive as location."
Locations have meanings. Locations have souls. Locations are the physical land mark we base memories on. A location can be everything or nothing.
"Sport’s ability to inspire, to teach deep lessons, to open pathways by which you can alter and transcend yourself / your limits … all there is about sport that is more than sport would remain. "
Are we talking Ironman triathlons are sports in general? I don’t you need to tell me what sport means Sunny Jim I gots my own thing with sports and it is beautiful.
I understand your point, and Jordan’s, and certainly some valid concerns are raised. However, I disagree with basic tenet that since it’s a world championship, it should move around, so that different courses are utilized. I think that the tradition of Kona, in Hawaii where Ironman was born, is important to the sport, which is relatively young. There are certain courses in a variety of sports that seem to transcend their sport and make the event special just because of where it is: The Masters at Augusta; Wimbledon; the cycling Classics; etc. I think there are many people like myself who can no more imagine the Ironman world championships being held somewhere else than Kona than one can imagine the Masters being played anywhere else than Augusta National. Yes, there are 3 other majors on the golf tour, but I think that many would agree that Augusta is the one special place, and one hasn’t really made it as a golfer unless they’ve won a green jacket. It is the same with Ironman; you can win all sorts of races, but until you’ve done it on the big day at Kona, you haven’t really arrived. And just as Augusta favors certain types of golfers, Kona favors certain kinds of triathletes who can withstand the heat. I don’t think that makes Kona unfair; it is what it is, and every pro who wants to win there knows what to expect. No one would suggest moving the Masters around to favor different kinds of golfers; I don’t think we should move the WC around just so someone who might be better suited to a different course has a better chance to win.
Of course, that’s just my opinion, and it’s no more valid than anyone else’s, but I would bet that there a few folks that would agree with that sentiment.
V/R-Spot
I don’t agree with you. You are comparing IM with events that are not world championships. Golf and tennis each have 4 majors, so the participants have more options. Your example of Augusta is an interesting one. For us non-Americans, it does not rank above the other majors.
In my view, a world championship should be inclusive not exclusive. It should not be the preserve of athletes that go well in hot conditions. Why not rotate it like cycling, where one year it favours climbers, another sprinters and others a mixture of both. With a hilly bike course like Nice, maybe even Chris Lieto could win ;-).
Out of interest, do any non-US IM races get coverage in the USA? Races in Germany get massive crowds and coverage. I watched the feed on Universal from Kona and was disappointed with the lack of crowds for the race.
I think that the tradition of Kona, in Hawaii where Ironman was born, is important to the sport, which is relatively young.
Not to nit-pick but Ironman wasn’t “born” in Kona. The original “birthplace” was on Oahu: The Waikiki Roughwater swim, the Around-Oahu Bike Race (which coincidentally was 115 miles!) and the Honolulu Marathon. It didn’t move to Kona until the '81 and didn’t move to October until '82 (when there were actually TWO races-February and October).
Kona is special but it’s not the birthplace.
34 years of Ironman is young but let’s not forget the first four years of history/tradition.
That’s why I said in Hawaii, not in Kona. I’m fully aware that the original Ironman was in Oahu.
Spot
Like I said, it’s just my opinion, but your argument doesn’t sway me.
That being said, I used Augusta just as one example; I think Wimbledon is another, but for tennis. I don’t think that there is a similar venue here in the US like that. And I am fully aware that neither Augusta or Wimbledon are not world championships. They are merely examples of where the course or the place exude something special.
I think one needs to also consider the logistics of moving something like an IM WC around. People base their entire training year on when they are going to qualify and then train for the event itself. If the WC was to move every year, then the venues for the WC would have to be laid out years in advance, and even then I think it would be somewhat tougher on the pro who is used to having the WC at the same time every year (since if you’re moving the race, you will of course have to move the time frame…would be pretty chilly having IM LP in October).
Spot
I think one needs to also consider the logistics of moving something like an IM WC around. People base their entire training year on when they are going to qualify and then train for the event itself. If the WC was to move every year, then the venues for the WC would have to be laid out years in advance, and even then I think it would be somewhat tougher on the pro who is used to having the WC at the same time every year (since if you’re moving the race, you will of course have to move the time frame…would be pretty chilly having IM LP in October).
Spot
I agree that we are only offering our opinions and am sure we are unlikely to convert each other, but it is a good discussion.
I believe that the above is a weak argument since other sports manage it easily. IM already has races and logistics across the world in place. Agree the timetable of championships would need to be planned, but this would be easy to do. I would envisage that Pros would then target the World Championships that suited their strengths in a similar way to cycling.
Most sports have iconic events, but most don’t make them their world championships to the exclusion of all other events. As I stated on Rappstar’s original thread, most sports showcase your world championships around the world, rather than expect the world to come to them.
Actually, most sports move the venues for their WC around, but they don’t move the timing. Cycling WCs are always at the same time every year, etc. That’s what I was getting at…because IM venues are in such different climes, you couldn’t hold them at the same time every year…that’s what would make it difficult, not the fact that the venue was changing.
Spot
I think the idea of a rota for a World Championship is a good one, like in golf the US Open rotates to different courses but you see the same ones repeated for the most part. Pinehurst will get frequent opens, Oakmont, Winged Foot etc… When THE Open goes to St. Andrews it always seems a bit more special. Kona hosts the WC say every 4th or 5th year??? The question is what would happen with Kona in the years it doesn’t host the WC? I would imagine it would have similar number of athletes competing, but the “additional” tourists the event draws to the Island would drop significantly. May be bad news for local economy. I don’t think this will happen myself, but i like the idea
Let us, the Slowtwitch community, no longer declare Kona as the world Champoinship and just refer to it as one of Triathlon’s “Majors”.
We can all come up with 2 other events to don as the other Majors. One can be in Europe and the other in Asia or the southern hemisphere.
Just a thought.
Let us, the Slowtwitch community, no longer declare Kona as the world Champoinship and just refer to it as one of Triathlon’s “Majors”.
We can all come up with 2 other events to don as the other Majors. One can be in Europe and the other in Asia or the southern hemisphere.
Just a thought.
It’s comments like that that keep me coming back here anytime I need a good laugh…
The great question is even if they decided to move the “world championship” name to another race besides Kona would people care? Or would Kona still be the main goal world championship or not? It think it would still be the A race for everyone involved.
I agree that Kona should not be the World Championships.
Right now, the only title that REALLY matters is “Kona”. For most, the prestige of the victory comes from the fact that it is sacred triathlon ground, with a lot of history. “World Championships” is just a title.
By having the World Championships in the spring, it might be possible to have two events that rise to the level of “pillars” or “majors” in other sports, versus just Kona today. It seems like the long course crowd needs another event to focus on and to peak for at the same time. The same Kona battles will take place, but perhaps a well scheduled World Championships will see the best of the best battle it out in something other than the high heat and brutal winds of Kona.
I don’t see how Kona can lose its prestige if it is no longer the World Championships. If anything, it strengthens its reputation by being able to stand on its own, without any additional labels required.
Yeah, I thought the interweb would like that one.
It would matter to the Pros, in terms of publicity outside of triathlon being world champion of your sport means more than winning at Kona.