Correct me if I’m wrong, which i have been many times before, but is it true that Jordan isn’t the biggest Kona fan?
(http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=3509789#3509789)
If that’s true, why does ST have so many cover stories?
I mean obviously…world championships…but still.
Again, if I’m wrong, please just let me know…I could very well have misunderstood the post.
Jordan may not be the biggest fan, but ST’s readers seem very interested, so they give the readers what they want.
Regardless of how one may feel about the WTC and it (mis)treatment of the sport as a steward, Kona still evokes more of an emotional response and connection with the triathlon community than any other race. I suspect that’s the reason.
It’s not Jordan’s site.
Maybe because life is not as black and white as some of you want it to be. You completely missed the points Jordan was making in jumping off to this question’s logic.
I interpreted Jordan as saying that he loves Kona and everything it stands for. He just wishes that the ‘World Championships’ and Kona were separable. The WC should be held in a different place and leave Kona for the history, awe, and specialness of the event. The WC doesn’t need to be in Kona.
"The WC doesn’t need to be in Kona. "
The Ironman doesn’t “need” to exist at all. Kona is a special place and special places get the worlds. Why would another place be better?
"The WC doesn’t need to be in Kona. "
The Ironman doesn’t “need” to exist at all. Kona is a special place and special places the worlds. Why would another place be better?
You ask a good question. I was just stating what I think Jordan’s point was. I couldn’t care less where the World Champ race is held. I still want to do Kona (not necessarily the WC).
give the readers om the forum what they want, did u enjoy it
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I think he was in Kona this year for sponsor stuff.
Jordan- have you attended before? Has your opinion changed since yesterday?
Again, I think this may be a misinterpretation of Jordan’s point. Or, at the very least, there’s an assumption built into your statement: no one said another place would be “better.” I also don’t think Jordan, or anyone else, was saying move it from X to Y, from Kona to Florida for example. There is a certain predictability, a horses for courses aspect, that creeps into the race that could be avoided by holding the championship on a different course every year (or maybe moving every 2 or 3 years). In my own opinion, this would be “better” - I’d love to see how the race would play out on a hillier course, a less humid course, in Europe where you’d get some different athletes. I imagine a lot of athletes would find this “better” as well - why should a race distance, the Ironman, that has such diversity among its global series of courses, and therefore allows athletes of various strengths to succeed, always contest its championship on a course with such specific selection pressures? It is the “world” championship so - again, my opinion - it would be nice for it to be a more globally adventurous event that showcases the variability of Ironman.
None of this means that Kona or the Kona mystique goes away.
Now, to turn your “why would another place be better” question back at you, do you think that Kona is the only “special place”? I’ve raced Canada, Coeur D’Alene, Placid, and I’ve seen some amazing shots of Lanzarote, New Zealand, Austria, etc. Maybe I’m ignorant of some special Hawaiian magic, but I think our “World” has quite a few special places. The specialness of Kona’s history is, of course, impossible to move … but should we be beholden to the past? Isn’t history something that we make every year? Take Crowie’s performance of yesterday and put it on a different course, it would have expressed itself differently (and, hell, maybe he wouldn’t have won), but I think it would have started to make new history.
well WTC moved the 70.3 wc from Florida to Vegas, maybe someday they will move Ironman wc from Kona to Vegas, it’s all about the $$$$, if a city/state offer them more $$$ to have it there, they may move it.
personally having done Hawaii, it is a special place for sure, but the race on itself is not that special. IM canada, or IM Germany (Roth) is better.
Now, to turn your “why would another place be better” question back at you, do you think that Kona is the only “special place”? I’ve raced Canada, Coeur D’Alene, Placid, and I’ve seen some amazing shots of Lanzarote, New Zealand, Austria, etc. Maybe I’m ignorant of some special Hawaiian magic, but I think our “World” has quite a few special places. <<
Actually, someone was mentioning this yesterday or sometime this week. They’ve been to many other IM races but this was the first time in Kona. They said that it’s just different here…hard to put a finger on it, but there is something special here.
But we don’t know if that’s because it’s Kona or because it’s the World Championship. And even then, different doesn’t necessarily mean better or more special, right?
They definitely meant it as better and more special.
I understand your point, and Jordan’s, and certainly some valid concerns are raised. However, I disagree with basic tenet that since it’s a world championship, it should move around, so that different courses are utilized. I think that the tradition of Kona, in Hawaii where Ironman was born, is important to the sport, which is relatively young. There are certain courses in a variety of sports that seem to transcend their sport and make the event special just because of where it is: The Masters at Augusta; Wimbledon; the cycling Classics; etc. I think there are many people like myself who can no more imagine the Ironman world championships being held somewhere else than Kona than one can imagine the Masters being played anywhere else than Augusta National. Yes, there are 3 other majors on the golf tour, but I think that many would agree that Augusta is the one special place, and one hasn’t really made it as a golfer unless they’ve won a green jacket. It is the same with Ironman; you can win all sorts of races, but until you’ve done it on the big day at Kona, you haven’t really arrived. And just as Augusta favors certain types of golfers, Kona favors certain kinds of triathletes who can withstand the heat. I don’t think that makes Kona unfair; it is what it is, and every pro who wants to win there knows what to expect. No one would suggest moving the Masters around to favor different kinds of golfers; I don’t think we should move the WC around just so someone who might be better suited to a different course has a better chance to win.
Of course, that’s just my opinion, and it’s no more valid than anyone else’s, but I would bet that there a few folks that would agree with that sentiment.
V/R-Spot
"The WC doesn’t need to be in Kona. "
The Ironman doesn’t “need” to exist at all. Kona is a special place and special places get the worlds. Why would another place be better?
I was of the same mind set as Jordan re Kona before I came here. But having been to World Cups, Olympics, World Champs, and everything in between - the place + the event + the people really do make this ‘feel’ like it’s the home of triathlon. Kind of hard to describe but I plan on putting a lot more thought into it the next few days, as it really does feel a special event.
"do you think that Kona is the only “special place”? "
That question is stupid on many levels but I will go along with it for arguments sake. Yes I do because Kona means triathlon to me . I started really following this sport in the mid 80s and there was the Bud Light Series, Nice and Kona. That is what was fed into my young mind and it has stuck. The Ironman is Hawaii. The best meet there in October and fight it out in the lava fields. Energy Lab is that mysterious place where things can sometimes go wrong. The Queen K is where we see our favorites tuck in and go go go.
This is just a sport. It is really not life or death. The world does not revolve around it. It is what we imagine it to be and to me and a lot of people the big island is home base for triathlon. So you could flip flop the championships all around the world and honestly I would stop caring who was the world champion. I would just wait for who wins the big one.
I think he was in Kona this year for sponsor stuff.
Jordan- have you attended before? Has your opinion changed since yesterday?
First off, thanks to many other people who clarified my point. Much appreciated. Y’all nailed what I was trying to say, which gives me some faith in my ability to write coherent English.
To answer timboricki, it was my first time ever on the Big Island, for any reason. No, my opinion didn’t change. However, a huge caveat (or two) - I left before the race (early Thu morning) as I have to get ready for ITU LD World’s. And, somewhat related to that, my focus was on the fact that I viewed the trip as a disruption to my training and my routine, which put me in a somewhat negative state of mind from the outset. I.e., I wanted to be at home, training, not schmoozing in Hawaii. So, because of that, I don’t think ANYTHING would have changed my mind. So I wouldn’t rely on what I experienced as meaningful. The one thing I will say that is that I think the effort put on by the various companies to make the entire experience special is extraordinary. The renting of the houses and other non-expo space, the limited edition goods, etc. The various companies really go above and beyond, and that was super impressive.
That still doesn’t address how much of that is the world championship halo. If you struggle to get to the world championship, and everyone around you has struggled to get there, and you take a week off of work and pay a fortune to travel there, and all the best pros are there, and the press is there, and the hype is built up … well, then, that would be kind of special, even in Madison, WI.