The Problem with Phelps' 2-Beat kick

This video of Michael Phelps doing a 2-beat kick came up in a recent thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_M7P_jmgBE&feature=related

Phelps is clearly one of the greatest freestylers of all time and someone who can provide hours of viewing enjoyment and exemplar form. However, in this case, he shows us what NOT to do when doing a 2-beat. Notice how his feet return to the center line after the down-beat of each kick, and then pause before the next kick is delivered. In a proper 2-beat, the legs actually lay at scissor, one up, and one down, rather than return to the center line.

Now, no doubt, Phelps is just easing along in this video, and performance is not his objective (nor perhaps is his objective to demonstrate the “proper” 2-beat kick). So, we can’t learn much about Michael’s swimming at all from this video. However, maybe this tells us something about why he does NOT use a 2-beat in competition, because it isn’t suited for him. I recall an anecdote that a friend related to me several years ago. Phelps coach was lecturing at a clinic here on the East Coast, and noted that he booted Phelps from workout for NOT using a 6-beat kick all the time, even when going slow.

Perhaps he didn’t like his 2-beat either? :slight_smile:

r.b.

He’s not swimming fast enough for that kick in the video to really mean anything. My kick is wonky when I’m swimming slow / easy as well. At slow speeds my feet return to center. At faster speeds my feet are much snappier and don’t spend much time together at all.

Using the best swimmer of all time as an example of poor swimming technique = FAIL.

Using the best swimmer of all time as an example of poor swimming technique = FAIL

Or another way to look at it is he is one of the best in spite of his technique.

has someone done all the math to actually figure out what a proper 2 beat kick is?

that would be a lot of math I doubt it has been done.

Using the best swimmer of all time as an example of poor swimming technique = FAIL

Or another way to look at it is he is one of the best in spite of his technique.

or another way to look at it is…swimming is an unsolved problem!

or another way to look at it is…swimming is an unsolved problem

Not for all of us :wink:
.

phelps only 6 beat kicks during a race.

theres a reason why phelps has won 8 oly golds in 2008, great talent, smart racing, awesome technique, and a workhorse work ethic.

a 6 beat kick is ideal for swimming, but not necessarily for triathlon swimming.

I’d actually venture the opinion that he is doing an arms drill and that the kick is only just enough to keep the balance in the water and drive the breathing. It’s not even a propulsive type kick, just kind of a “twitch” to offset for balance.

John

Brian,

In another thread you mentioned having gone from a 29:xx 1500 swimmer to a 22:xx swimmer in just two weeks. When asked how you did that, you said something along the lines of improving technique and a lot of work. I suspected then, as I do now, that you were being a bit misleading. I don’t think that type of improvement is reasonable for even a motivated and relatively talented athlete to expect, unless there is more to the story. What was your swimming background leading up to that 2 week period of massive improvement, if you don’t mind answering?

This video of Michael Phelps doing a 2-beat kick came up in a recent thread:

http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related

Phelps is clearly one of the greatest freestylers of all time and someone who can provide hours of viewing enjoyment and exemplar form. However, in this case, he shows us what NOT to do when doing a 2-beat. Notice how his feet return to the center line after the down-beat of each kick, and then pause before the next kick is delivered. In a proper 2-beat, the legs actually lay at scissor, one up, and one down, rather than return to the center line.

Now, no doubt, Phelps is just easing along in this video, and performance is not his objective (nor perhaps is his objective to demonstrate the “proper” 2-beat kick). So, we can’t learn much about Michael’s swimming at all from this video. However, maybe this tells us something about why he does NOT use a 2-beat in competition, because it isn’t suited for him. I recall an anecdote that a friend related to me several years ago. Phelps coach was lecturing at a clinic here on the East Coast, and noted that he booted Phelps from workout for NOT using a 6-beat kick all the time, even when going slow.

Perhaps he didn’t like his 2-beat either? :slight_smile:

r.b.

He is minimizing drag caused by his legs during the momentary glide phase.

For a really good example of 2-beat kick, check out Laure Manaudou over the longer distances. Just poetry in aquatic motion.

phelps only 6 beat kicks during a race.

Actually, according to what I have heard, he spends an overwhelming majority of his time TRAINING with a 6-beat. Cause you gotta train it to race it.

r.b.

Using the best swimmer of all time as an example of poor swimming technique = FAIL.

Actually, the original thread that I referenced, someone proffered this as an example of what happens to stroke length while using a 2-beat kick - unfortunately, in this case (as noted by CornUponCob), one cannot gather any useful information about 2-beat kicking because Phelps is just diddling around here.

I disagree with your “FAIL” assessment. I would submit that he is the greatest at what he PRACTICES, not the greatest by some divine gift. This is not the style that he uses, and thus, it is understandable that he is not good at it, or, since he is NOT trying to go fast here, he is not using an optimal form of this kick.

r.b.

has someone done all the math to actually figure out what a proper 2 beat kick is?

that would be a lot of math I doubt it has been done.

Believe it or not, I’ve tried, using some crappola involving Reynold’s and Strouhal numbers, but have yet to get it just right (not giving up yet however).

So, yeah, I should maybe qualify that statement a bit, the style that I have observed to be used by the most successful 2-beat practitioners is one in which they do NOT return to the centerline. But, that doesn’t really prove anything. Although, perhaps one could argue that the internal super-computers of the worlds best have done the math and come up with the solution.

regards,
r.b.

He is minimizing drag caused by his legs during the momentary glide phase.

That is a plausible hypothesis, but, of course, he appears to be emphasizing ease of effort rather than the speed-effort sweet spot.

r.b.

The problem with trying to analyze Phelp’s “problem” is that there’s virtually no equivalent on the planet this side of sea otters.

The guy has flippers attached to the bottoms of his legs. The flexibility of his feet and ankles is unparalleled. His kinesthetic sense of what works in the water is equally unparalleled.

He is amazing to watch. But I’ve as much chance of swimming like him as I do of jumping off my roof and flying like a hawk.

That said, I will continue to flap away, hoping…

Later!

Brian

Using the best swimmer of all time as an example of poor swimming technique = FAIL.

+1

…and the problem with Lance Armstrong’s cadence is…

cheers
S.

The problem with trying to analyze Phelp’s “problem” is that there’s virtually no equivalent on the planet this side of sea otters.

Ryan Lochte might disagree. :slight_smile:

As would a host of other swimmers (including the current world record holder), all of whom are in the same ballpark as Phelps in terms of freestyle.

I suppose the “problem” here, is that the original point is being missed – using Phelps as the exemplar for 2-beat freestyle is like using him as the exemplar for breaststroke, it is something that he does not specialize in in competition … Actually, the original point was to have some fun with something inherently controversial, which is I guess was made.

r.b.

…and the problem with Lance Armstrong’s cadence is…

I think that you may have failed to look at the video in context of my post. The video is of Phelps diddling around, doing something that he DOES NOT RACE with.

If someone saw a video of LA riding his kids tricycle, and concluded that you should set your road bike up with your knees above your ears - would you disagree, or at least question it?

r.b.